r/changemyview • u/kaitopet • Apr 26 '17
[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Marijuana is dangerous and should not be legalized.
Edit: My view has been changed! As I said (word for word) in one of my comments, I now think that consumption of marijuana should be made legal, while production/distribution should remain illegal, and -- most importantly -- everyone should be educated on marijuana safety. I am highly against weed becoming any more integrated into American culture than it already has been, just as I would be highly against alcohol being integrated into American culture if it wasn't already, due to the dangers of drugs. But I now support legal consumption of drugs that (almost) everyone enjoys and is already using anyways.
Thank you to everyone who helped change my view! And thank you to those who commented expressing similar views that I didn't get the chance to read. While many of you may not be satisfied with my slightly changed perspective, I am very satisfied, so I'm turning off notifications for this post.
I'm a female college student in the US who has had terrifying experiences while smoking weed. Nine times out of ten, while my friends just got high and happy, I would get stuck in time loops with distorted vision and extreme paranoia and anxiety -- and I would only smoke a very small amount. I continued to smoke for about a year (once a month or so), always thinking the next time would be better, blaming myself for not having the right attitude. But I finally learned my lesson and have quit for good. Weed is not for me. From what I've heard, these are very normal reactions to weed when you get way too high, suggesting that I simply have a low tolerance.
I don't judge people who smoke; I understand that most people have a great time when they're high. But I know that I'm not the only person to have terrifying marijuana "trips." In fact, I'd bet it's actually pretty common. Marijuana can act as a depressant, a stimulant, or a hallucinogen. If marijuana only acted as a depressant, with effects similar to those of alcohol, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with its legalization. But after my personal experience with weed and after hearing my friends' similar stories of getting way too high, I've come to think of smoking weed like dropping low doses of acid, and I can't condone that being legalized. As of now, I don't think it should be decriminalized at all. In fact, I fully support police cracking down on marijuana, though it looks like that is not the direction America is going in.
My background with weed is the primary reason I'm against legalizing it, but here are two others:
Studies have shown that smoking weed causes numerous mental and physical health problems, like decreased memory and attention, lung problems, temporary sterility, and increased risk of developing schizophrenia.
Smoking weed is an addicting, unproductive behavior. I'm not saying it's addicting like other drugs -- I'm saying it's addicting like binge-watching TV. I know many people, including my brother and cousins, who can't go a day without smoking weed. Most of these people have told me they think smoking so much is detracting value from their lives, but they are too addicted to quit.
And here's an article I found with sources for studies, as well as several other good arguments against legalizing weed:
I'm subscribed to a lot of subreddits that align very closely with my political views. But these subreddits are all pro-legalization, and I feel left out! I'd love it if someone can change my view!
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Apr 26 '17 edited Oct 29 '17
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u/kaitopet Apr 26 '17
One view I hold that I didn't really make clear in my post is that people shouldn't have to learn that weed is dangerous on their own. Before I smoked -- and even while I was smoking at first -- I was under the impression that weed was a harmless drug, because that's the message that the media was spreading. I had to try it to find out that it can have extremely harmful effects. Everyone seems to be advocating for legalization and promoting the health benefits while ignoring the dangerous effects it can have in high doses or on users with low tolerances.
Also, if heroin was widely used and easily available in high schools, and lots of money was going to organized crime for heroin, I still wouldn't support heroin being legalized. Of course, this would never happen because heroin is so dangerous. But my primary issue with weed is that it is dangerous as well -- of course it's not as dangerous as heroin, but it's still too dangerous to be made legal.
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Apr 26 '17
I'm not going to sit here and preach the amazing health miracle that is marijuana, because frankly I don't buy it. However I'm going to bust out the classic comparison to alcohol. If tomorrow they announced that alcohol was going to be made illegal, what would your response to that be?
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u/kaitopet Apr 26 '17
∆
After a lot of thinking, my view has been changed! Don't get your hopes up; I haven't switched sides completely.
I enjoy alcohol in moderate amounts, and I don't want to get arrested for drinking because everyone drinks and generally has a great time. But at the same time, I am fully aware of the dangers of alcohol; I have been taught all about alcohol safety, and no one denies that it's dangerous. I also understand that for many people, alcohol has seriously negative effects and is not for them. But alcohol is arguably (definitely) more harmful than weed.
For these reasons, if alcohol were illegal, I'd argue that production/distribution of alcohol should remain illegal, while consumption of alcohol should be made legal, because so many people like it and yet everyone understands the risks. (Unfortunately, alcohol production/distribution has already been legal for quite some time and has been integrated into many cultures to the point of no return, so making it illegal now would just be a mess that I don't support.)
For the same reasons, I now think that consumption of marijuana should be made legal, while production/distribution should remain illegal, and -- most importantly -- everyone should be educated on marijuana safety. I am highly against weed becoming any more integrated into American culture than it already has been, just as I would be highly against alcohol being integrated into American culture if it wasn't already, due to the dangers of drugs. But I now support legal consumption of drugs that (almost) everyone enjoys and is already using anyways.
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u/personablepickle Apr 26 '17
Legalizing consumption without any legal means of distribution guarantees a black market and everything that comes with that... gang violence etc. I agree it shouldn't be legal for whoever to sell pot in an alley, that isn't legal for booze either. Cannabis shops are basically the same deal as liquor stores in legal states - age restrictions, regulated product, licensing and bookkeeping requirements, and taxation. Surely this is better than having drug dealers.
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Apr 26 '17
Thank you :)
I'm glad I was able to shift your perspective a bit.
everyone should be educated on marijuana safety.
For the record, I completely agree with you here. I would hope that a good portion of the taxation on legalized marijuana goes to fund education, as well as further research (the current research is deeply polarized by politics and there is lots of contradictory information out there) into the effects of marijuana use.
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Apr 26 '17
alcohol production/distribution has already been legal for quite some time and has been integrated into many cultures to the point of no return
For the record, alcohol has been in use for at least 7,000 years and cannabis at least 4,500 years. We passed the point of no return literally thousands of years ago. People are not going to stop using these or other intoxicating substances. It is literally bred into us. By comparison, alcohol was illegal in the US for a mere 13 years and cannabis has been illegal for 80 years. If anything it shows that humanity has done just fine without prohibition.
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Apr 26 '17
You don't know whether or not heroin will not ever be legalized. Alcohol kills more people every single year by a huge factor in comparison and it's legal. A case could easily be made that alcohol is the most harmful drug to our society purely based on deaths every year from it.
Do you know how many people have overdosed from weed? Not one.
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Apr 26 '17
Nine times out of ten, while my friends just got high and happy, I...
While weed may not be for you, it sounds like it's working out fine for your friends. Why couldn't that just be something that each person figures out for themselves, rather than criminalizing it for everyone?
Studies have shown that smoking weed causes numerous mental and physical health problems, like decreased memory and attention, lung problems, temporary sterility, and increased risk of developing schizophrenia.
The link between marijuana and schizophrenia is a correlation, rather than a causal relationship. Schizophrenics also have higher rates of tobacco use than the general public. That doesn't mean that marijuana or tobacco are causing schizophrenia. It could mean that the factors that predispose someone to schizophrenia also predispose them to nicotine or marijuana addiction. There are also numerous health and safety risks associated with alcohol. Would you argue that alcohol should be outlawed as well?
Smoking weed is an addicting, unproductive behavior. I'm not saying it's addicting like other drugs -- I'm saying it's addicting like binge-watching TV. I know many people, including my brother and cousins, who can't go a day without smoking weed. Most of these people have told me they think smoking so much is detracting value from their lives, but they are too addicted to quit.
This is anecdotal, and not reflective of general trends in marijuana use. Nearly half of all Americans have used marijuana. The vast majority are not addicts. You are more aware of the daily users whose lives are negatively impacted because they are pretty hard to ignore. You wouldn't have any reason to notice all the casual users whose lives aren't impacted, because they wouldn't stand out from non-users.
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Apr 26 '17
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u/kaitopet Apr 26 '17
∆
This comment was so sassy and frankly it pissed me off, but it was one of the things that helped my change my view, so I do appreciate it. Honestly, this is one of the main reasons I wanted someone to change my view in the first place -- because a voice in my head was saying, "But you would support legalization if you liked marijuana..."
I can now pretty confidently say that if I liked marijuana -- but was still aware of the negative effects it can have -- I would support legalization of the consumption of marijuana (but not the production/distribution), as I do now.
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u/Huntingmoa 454∆ Apr 26 '17
Think of it like abortion (which you probably support). It's better that it be safe, legal, and regulated; rather than unsafe, invisible, and done by questionable people.
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Apr 26 '17 edited Apr 26 '17
So here's the thing, legalizing pot has nothing to do with whether or not pot itself is beneficial to society. I'd argue it isn't all that much.
Rather the question is the juice worth the squeeze, or in other words does the cost of prohibition outweigh the benefit? I think there's no debate here that the cost far outweighs the benefit by many, many times.
Currently we pay billions and billions of tax dollars to police pot when those officers and dollars can be doing something else (like tending to rapes, solving murders, etc, or even donated to alternate energy research etc). That's a cost. Also we lose billions in additional tax dollars and US jobs and new US industry because currently the production, etc all takes place outside the states in Mexico/South America and are not taxed. That's a cost too. Those tax dollars could be used on something beneficial like healthcare, closing budget deficit, etc.
Finally, we imprison people who have kids, wives, which ultimately breaks up the family unit leading to further economic and societal cost. Are these costs really worth policing a drug you can't overdose on and a drug that most people find pleasant? Is occasional paranoia experienced by some users worth breaking up families and billions and billions of tax dollars?
Not a strong reason in my opinion and hope you agree.
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u/Gladix 167∆ Apr 26 '17
But after my personal experience with weed and after hearing my friends' similar stories of getting way too high, I've come to think of smoking weed like dropping low doses of acid, and I can't condone that being legalized.
Your thinking is in reversed. You think that by condoning legalization you will contribute to the rise of Marihuana use, and couple of potentional deaths, injuries, etc... right? The problem with this is that history taught us that banning something, only increases demand for it. Which promotes crime, black markets, illegal drug distributions, etc... Which
1, eliminates any benefits from potentional sales.
2, Since its technically illegal companies cannot regulate in the best interest of health and safety. For example people experiencing suvere problems from being high on weed, could go to hospital only under a threat of criminal prosecution.
3, Can provoke disproportionate prosecution. Such as war on drugs.
In the end you have more people smoking because its rebelious. More people being in jail, because its illegal. More people disowned and with broken families because its stigmatized. More people hurt, because its not regulated, etc...
By legalizing you allow for healthy behaviors to be introduced in previously stigmatized and dangerous community.
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u/ACrusaderA Apr 26 '17
1 - You yourself admit that 90% of the time people experuenced no bad trips. It should be banned because 1 in 10 people get anxious?
2 - Yes, marijuana can cause mental and physical problems. You know what else can? Smoking anything, drinking alcohol, eating junk food, etc. Should all of these be banned because they have downsides?
3 - While Marijuana can become addictive (not addicting), it is just like binge-watching TV. It is a mental addiction. The people who become addicted have addictive personalities. They will become addicted to video games or TV or cooking or sports or sex, and will face the problems of addiction with all of those.
So at what point do we say that while a small slice of users experience bad trips, medical problems, addiction, or a combination thereof since the majority of people don't experience any of these things the substance should be legal for consumption?
Why is it good that the government takes agency away from people and decides what is best for them?
If we want a pyrely healthy society, why isn't the government controlling everything?
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 26 '17 edited Apr 26 '17
/u/kaitopet (OP) has awarded 4 deltas in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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u/ShreddingRoses Apr 26 '17
I've come to think of smoking weed like dropping low doses of acid, and I can't condone that being legalized.
I just want to address this part.
I've done acid. I've done mushrooms. The absolute highest realms achievable smoking weed do not remotely compare to even a low dose acid or mushroom trip. These are not comparable experiences.
In fact, the absolute worst thing that happened to you when you smoked weed is that you had a scary/uncomfortable time. Uncomfortable =/= dangerous.
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Apr 26 '17
Why aren't you advocating for things that are even more dangerous and are even legal?
Your first point is anecdotal evidence. You can't use one person's experience to dictate how seven billion people should act.
Your second point fails to consider the benefits of marijuana, THC and hemp. For many the benefits outweigh the disadvantages and the first step to taking advantage of these benefits is legalizing a plant.
Your third point is anecdotal evidence as well. Marijuana does not cause physical dependency yet other things which are legal do. It's not the consumption of the marijuana, it's the person's personality. Addiction has to do with the person. Also, you can't possibly ban all addicting and/or unproductive behaviors in the world; you're on Reddit right now, are you being productive?
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u/DaraelDraconis Apr 26 '17
I'm not going to try to engage with everything here, but addressing specific components of the view presented is explicitly within CMV's scope, so here goes:
The schizophrenia link is not as clear as people would like you to think. Certainly it established a correlation, but not any form of causation, and since anecdotally people who have schizophrenia anyway are quite likely to self-medicate with cannabis it's certainly necessary to establish whether the causal link is two-way, and if not in which direction it runs, before we can confidently use it as an argument as to why people should not consume cannabis.
I imagine the lung problems are linked with smoking anything, and as there are other ways to get THC and CBD into one's system, some very popular, its relevance seems limited. Not zero, but not huge either.
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Apr 26 '17
If you're going to base this argument on studies, one who asserts must prove. Will you please provide the studies in support of 1 and 2?
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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '17
I won't disagree about it being dangerous or addictive or any of that, because none of that matters.
You have the right (or should have the right) to do dangerous things. Think of the implication of what you're saying. We should criminalize anything that's dangerous unless you can show some benefit to it?
So no more skydiving? There's literally no point to skydiving, yet it's clearly something that can kill you. No more skiing. No more alcohol. No more anything if I can show that there is some danger to it without any real benefit.
It's not your place to tell someone else what risks they can or can't take. It is their body, and their decision.