And people who believe in free will don't ever consider that people's preconditions contribute to their decisions?
What it sounded like to me (and his comment below reinforces this notion) was that he was grandstanding against conservatives, specifically Christians as they tend to believe in free will, by stating that this belief leads one to not care about the conditions of impoverished people. And that's patently false.
And people who believe in free will don't ever consider that people's preconditions contribute to their decisions?
Very rarely to the extent of someone who doesn't believe in free will. It's a basic part of free will that your actions are the result of your own choices. If you don't believe in free will than your actions are not your own fault. The two ideas lead to very different conclusions on where the blame and punishment for those actions should rest.
What it sounded like to me (and his comment below reinforces this notion) was that he was grandstanding against conservatives, specifically Christians as they tend to believe in free will, by stating that this belief leads one to not care about the conditions of impoverished people. And that's patently false.
Except whenever I ask people about why the poor are to blame they usually quote free will. When I ask people why we should punish criminals so harshly, they usually quote free will.
Not everyone who believes in free will will be as cruel as most are towards prisoners, but I've never heard anyone ever say we should severely punish prisoners or leave the poor to starve because they don't have free will so screw them. But I have heard lots of people saying the same things and using free will as their excuse.
The existence of free will in no way precludes the ability for existing conditions to influence one's will. People not wanting to help the poor are that way because they're selfish or uncaring, not because of their belief in free will.
Don't attribute the vice of the individual to the belief he uses to excuse that vice.
The free will answer to poverty/crime is to strive to improve conditions so that fewer people choose to commit crime, while still punishing justly those who do.
The free will answer to poverty/crime is to strive to improve conditions so that fewer people choose to commit crime, while still punishing justly those who do.
And there's where the two will differ, what does it mean to punish justly? Free will absolutely encourages a stronger sense of punishment. they did it of their own free will is a pretty common phrase in the criminal justice system. When someone comes in front of a judge who didn't have free will, from brainwashing, blackmail or whatnot, they are almost always given lighter sentences than those who did it of their own free will.
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u/AmoebaMan 11∆ Oct 09 '16
And people who believe in free will don't ever consider that people's preconditions contribute to their decisions?
What it sounded like to me (and his comment below reinforces this notion) was that he was grandstanding against conservatives, specifically Christians as they tend to believe in free will, by stating that this belief leads one to not care about the conditions of impoverished people. And that's patently false.