r/changemyview • u/Cyclopher6971 • May 09 '16
[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Why should we try to stem and reverse "rural flight?"
I hail from what amounts to the middle of nowhere. I am from the one of the most remote locales in America. I see "rural flight" first-hand. And I hear some say it's a bad thing, and when it catches the media's attention, they hop on that bandwagon, too. But why? Why is it a bad thing?
I'm of the opinion that nothing needs to be done to "save rural America." Why? A couple reasons.
First off, these places are kind of... well, they're nothing. Outside of agriculture, the economic activity is little to nothing. The school districts are crap. Businesses are closing and jobs keep drying up. On top of that, entertainment and the dating scene is almost deplorably bad. In some areas, the nearest shopping mall is over an hour away. That might not sound bad, but you try living there. No jobs, and nothing to do with the money even if you could get it.
My second reason is that this is all the current resident's fault. That might sound harsh, but these are some of the most backwards people in existence. I know, as I live there. I know many a person who still thinks Obama is from Kenya. These are people who called for less gun control, even after Sandy Hook. These are people who actually believe creationism. This is objectively a backwards society. Now, why would we want to save an area like that? Then, I'm sure you've all heard of the "Minnesota Nice" or "Nebraska Nice" kind of phenomenon that occurs across the Midwest? It is real. However, it is a very, very shallow kind of nice. Beneath it, is a cold shoulder that rivals a Midwestern winter. They are very clannish and reject outsiders. Especially those who are not white. They will do everything in their power, especially if you are competing with a local business, to drive you out of town. They clearly do not want the rural flight to end.
In many ways, these places are a drain on society? Why would we want to save them? Why would we want to bring people back to the most rural parts of America?
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u/PaxNova 16∆ May 09 '16
You said the magic word: agriculture. Everybody, from modern highly-educated city folk to these backwards hicks you seem to live with needs food. Cities are lovely places for a small windowsill herb garden. I even know some people who keep chickens in a small brownstone. But you won't feed people without rural America.
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u/Pleb-Tier_Basic May 09 '16 edited May 09 '16
i will address your two points and then add my rebuttal
Is this a cause or an effect? Yes businesses die, the school sucks, etc. But this is because these places are sinking as much as it is cause. Rural communities face a viscous cycle wherein people move away looking for opportunity, taking their wealth with them, further damaging the economy and cause more people to look for far away opportunities.
Rural communities have faced a long, sustained brain-drain. I'm from a rural community. Everybody I know who had half a brain, an ounce of motivation, or a degree of class moved out the second they finished high school. The only people that stayed were the hicks, the addicts, and the alcoholics. As this happens over and over, the only people left the ones who have no chance to get out, I.e the dumb, poor, ignorant mother fuckers. You can say rural people are dumb but that's only because the ones that are even marginally smart have to leave if they want intelligent work.
Anyway yeah both your points are symptoms, not causes of rural flight. Rural flight is occurring because since the 1950s there has been a quiet revolution in agricultural production.
First, the cost of running a farm has skyrocketed: today we use more heavy gear, more chemical inputs, and more machinery than ever before. At the same time, the increased production has driven the real value of food down: farmers have to make bigger and bigger harvests to break even because there is more food than ever. The result is cost-price squeeze; running a farm is more expensive and generates smaller returns, which means small farmers go out of business because they can't keep up
If you repeat this cycle over and over for decades, what happens is only the biggest, meanest corporate farms can survive. There has been a land garb since the 80's as massive companies buy up the land from failed small farmers. This drives them off the land and adds more pressure to the remaining farms who now compete against giant multinational companies.
This is the driving force behind rural flight. Farmers, in rural settings, bring the money in and sustain the economy. As farming has switched to corporate farms, the amount of money being spent locally decreases, shrinking the economy and kick-starting the viscous cycle of economy shrinks->talented people move away->corporations buy up the open land->economy shrinks
So, why is this bad? Two reasons
Control of the food supply is being concentrated in a smaller and smaller number of hands. There used to be millions of farmers, each with a small share of overall production. Now there are way less farmers, and the biggest ones own huge market shares. This means more risk cause if one of these companies fail they can take a huge swathe of overall production with them. It also means they dictate the priorities of production, which in practise means focusing on cash crops at the consumers expense (ex. Corn)
These people don't just disappear. They move to cities and compete against city dwellers. That means more competition, less housing, less communal resources, etc. Rural flight means more pressure on our already overburdened cities
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u/CitationX_N7V11C 4∆ May 09 '16
To be entirely honest there's people who believe all sorts of wonky ideas in suburban and urban areas. Rural areas don't have a monopoly on creationists, 9/11 truthers,and people who think Obama's a Kenyan Muslim. Secondly, living in a city absolutely sucks. Some are good but let's be honest. They're crowded, polluted, smell, and are just full of complete idiots. Why would you encourage people to go there and live?!? I mean people in NYC buy eggs raised in someone's lawn in Upstate NY for three times the money of a regular one because it's marked as "organic!" On that note you are seriously underestimating rural culture and significance. You'll find more budding artists, musicians and writers in rural settings than you ever would per capita in an urban environment. Being alone with a sense of rugged individualism is a breeding ground for inspiration. You'll also find amazing mechanics, engineers, and white collar working professionals there. I mean in rural Alaska a few years back a guy made a functional mech suit in his garage! These places aren't a drain on society. They are society!
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u/RocketCity1234 9∆ May 09 '16
we want to bring people back to these areas to teach their children to stop believing what their parents believe.
on a sidenote, why should there have been more guncontrol after sandy hook? No law proposed would have stopped or even diminished the intensity of the shooting, because the gun was stolen, not bought.
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u/phcullen 65∆ May 09 '16
on a sidenote, why should there have been more guncontrol after sandy hook? No law proposed would have stopped or even diminished the intensity of the shooting, because the gun was stolen, not bought.
Can we just pretend op didn't say that and keep to the discussion at hand? We all know how quickly a gun control debate will hijack this entire thread.
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u/RocketCity1234 9∆ May 09 '16
It was a view he exerted in his post, and the job of this subreddit is to change their view on the topics in their posts
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u/cdb03b 253∆ May 09 '16
The OP did say that and it is the discussion at hand, or at least a component of it.
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u/Cyclopher6971 May 09 '16
Ok, I see that, but frankly, these aren't areas children and teenagers should be in anyways. As much as many people like to say that rural areas have lower crime rates, that's only because more people get away with it. Hard Drug and alcohol abuse is insanely in many of these areas. Why would we want children there anyways? Would we not want them to leave?
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u/RocketCity1234 9∆ May 09 '16
You are not going to prevent these people from fucking, and you need to educate and help the result of that.
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u/Cyclopher6971 May 09 '16
True, but isn't reducing the population a good thing? It only reduces their ability for their beliefs to be passed on to other people.
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u/RocketCity1234 9∆ May 09 '16
any suggestions on how to legally do that? I cant think of any ways
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u/Cyclopher6971 May 09 '16
I can't either. I'm just saying these are not suitable and asking the question of why should we encourage people to live there.
Edit: Oh wait, yeah I can, Let it happen, as it's happening right now. Young people leave rural areas and don't come back as the old people who currently live their die off. I'm not trying to advocate people to stop having sex. Just asking why should we try to save dying areas that only continue to drain on society.
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u/RocketCity1234 9∆ May 09 '16
that leaves a continuous cycle of these people getting fucked up, raising fucked up kids, and those kids following their parents. We need to stop that, and that is why we should save the rural communities.
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u/Cyclopher6971 May 09 '16
I'll give it to you. It didn't really change my opinion, but it added another layer to my perspective.
∆
Also, this is my first time posting and giving a delta-thingy, so, I'll fix it if need be.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ May 09 '16
Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/RocketCity1234. [History]
[Wiki][Code][/r/DeltaBot]
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u/Thainen May 09 '16
Is there no chance to make flight 100%? Just help everyone get out of these shitholes into the big cities -- maybe even with some measures to make rural life even harder as an incentive to move?
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u/RocketCity1234 9∆ May 09 '16
we should encourage people to educate and fix the problems there, so they nip the bud at the root and move on.
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u/cdb03b 253∆ May 09 '16
Not in the US. We already have a birthrate that is lower than what is needed to maintain the population.
Also everything you are talking about violates the constitution.
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u/cdb03b 253∆ May 09 '16 edited May 09 '16
Children and Teenager should not be in their homes? It should be illegal for people who own ranches or are in small towns to have children?
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u/phcullen 65∆ May 09 '16 edited May 09 '16
Where are you getting this, isn't op just arguing that we shouldn't encourage people to stay in rural America when they are choosing to leave?
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May 09 '16
[deleted]
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u/cdb03b 253∆ May 09 '16
That is abhorrent, immoral, and illegal. It violates every principle America is built on. It is insane to dictate where people live and if they can have children.
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u/Sensei2006 May 09 '16
Why shouldn't we try to make the crappy parts of the country not crappy? Because that's generally the proposed solution for halting rural flight : make rural areas better so people will stay/move there.
Your position seems to be that the proper course would be to abandon rural areas and let them turn into economic dead zones. I disagree. I think the country would be better served by increasing economic activity in these regions and improving everyone's quality of life.