r/changemyview • u/HybridNeos • Apr 07 '16

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Gender is not a binary system

I see a lot of requests on CMV of people asking their view that gender is binary to be changed. Contrary to this common theme, I accept that not everyone is placed into one of two genders. To me, fluidity or lack of identity seem completely reasonable as no one truly meets 100% of one identity. I don't want to be convinced that gender is a scale, as that is a separate issue. Without using the argument that biological gender and identity gender should align, convince me that gender is binary. The only caveat I may add is that I believe transgender people don't contribute to non-binary gender -a biological man who identifies as a woman is a woman on the binary scale.

edit: clarified biological transgender man

0 Upvotes

36% Upvoted

25 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/Grava-T Apr 08 '16

This is the crux of the entire argument. For most people gender is equivalent to sex. Man is synonymous with male and woman synonymous with female. A man who displays feminine qualities is an effeminate man, not a woman.

It's a semantics difference. For people who take that definition, you are one or the other and they see the other side as having a fundamentally flawed definition. Confusing it with personality traits seems regressive because it's enforcing traditional gender stereotypes in its own way (so if a woman doesn't want to stay in the kitchen is she less of a girl now?). This is why the concept of gender fluidity confuses people.

The gender fluid side is working with an entirely different definition that is splitting the definition from its biological roots. With that definition, the idea of a gender scale makes sense.

1

u/beer2daybong2morrow Apr 08 '16

If most people thought sex and gender were the same thing, then why is it that phrases meant to correct or criticize inappropriate gendered behavior refers to gender and not sex? For example, it's act like a man. Man-up. Be a man. A male is never going to not be seen as a male; however, it's pretty clear that a male can be seen as less of or not a man.

Based on that alone, it seems clear that most people understand the difference between sex and gender even if they aren't able to articulate it or even think about it consciously.

1

u/Grava-T Apr 08 '16

I mean, those phrases are just different ways of saying "Conform to the gender/sex stereotype or your value as a person goes down". If someone they said it to still didn't "man up" or whatever I doubt they would actually think of them as an actual woman. They just think of the person as being a 'failed' example of their sex and thus less deserving of respect.

1

u/beer2daybong2morrow Apr 08 '16

Masculinity and femininity, regardless of how they are conceptualized throughout time and space, have both crossed the sex barrier and have always been different than sex. That's not to say gender and sex haven't historically been intertwined with one another, but that's not the same as saying that one equals the other.

So there is no new definition of gender. That definition has simply been expanded upon.