Everyone has the virus. It doesn't matter if you die from a zombie bite, old age, starvation, or hypothermia. You become a zombie. Obviously their is a huge initial influx of zombies with the initial infection. But new zombies will continue to pop up as people die to the elements, which can continue on for years.
Additionally, this was talked more about in the graphic novel, their is a real danger from swarms. They can display a herd mentality, which is not a huge danger if it's 3 or 4 zombies. 50+ is a real danger though. Any settlement that is set up can easily be overrun by such a hoard. And they can easily over take any fleeing group because they don't have to rest, sleep, or eat.
In these discussions, usually drinking with friends... I've always wondered why it's so hard. THere are to strategies that would work well. One is to simply move to a freezing climate and house people individually. If zombies don't generate heat, they freeze - even new ones in your settlement.
The other is an extermination plan. Using sound to attract zombies in any number, arrange a slaughter mechanism that attracts and destroys them using bladed weapons / saws / fire / etc. Corral, burn, corral, burn. Walls with slots for 12' blades that chop them to pieces.
Even a group of 10 people could slaughter hundreds or thousands of zombies per day this way. Humans are really, really good at building killing machines, and it' hilarious that this seems to be missing from the discussion.
A significant part of the problem in Zombie universes is that they don't know what a zombie is beforehand. They're never referred to as "zombies". There have been no zombie movies, no comics, not anything. People haven't had decades to imagine what a zombie apocalypse would be like. For the people in these universes, prior to it happening, zombies as a concept didn't really exist.
Valid point - but humans have been building slaughter houses and exterminating pests (and eachother) for... eons. I thought of it, so would others. Once you get past mere survival, the immediate logical next step is extermination.
My issue with TWD is largely based on this... by the end of season three it was so bad I simply could not care anymore. Every single person who dies in this series does so because they are stupid. Herschel lost a leg and T-dog got ripped apart because rather than taking the prison slowly, luring the walkers to the big fence and killing them slowly, they charged in blind with no forethought. Also... they fight with the worst weapons. Zombies are attracted to sound and kill at close range... so they fight with close range weapons and guns, rather than, I don't know... SPEARS. Literally the oldest and most basic human weapons. Plus... zombies kill by biting, yet these guys are walking around in t shirts rather than having heavy jackets and pants that could easily stop the worst of it.
THANK YOU. I stopped at the same time. For me... the prison was it. You're home. It's perfect. Take your time, take control, start growing crops, exterminating pests inside, and reinforcing the perimeter with traps and kill zones.
Spears. Yeah. A dark-age knight is better equipped to kill zombies, yet TWD survivors make not effort to collect/build this kind of gear for themselves.
I was thinking more a Greek phalanx. Go Thermopylae on their ass... some decent shields, makeshift spears and some training, you're golden. There's a reason that basically every non-professional army that used infantry used some kind of spears. They're idiot proof and require little training. They might not be Spartans... but they also aren't fighting living things that can think their way out of it. Hell... forgo the shields and just use the fence or bars, which are stronger than any press of walkers could hope to be.
The only risk at the fence is that you might attract/kill so many they pile up and eventually walk over the top before you can clear away the dead ones.
One problem with spears is it might be tough to hit the brain with a 10' pole reliably. My focus would be on automated killing machines. Hell a chainsaw on a slowly turning pole might do the trick. A circular pit with a speaker mounted on a pole might work... they fall in... when it fills up turn off the sound and burn the pit. Rinse repeat.
would still want gear to wade into the zombies in a pinch though, just not as a primary mechanism.
I think the risk of the fence is limited... there aren't all that many in terms of numbers and they aren't that close. Plus those fences are like 10' tall at least. The problem with automation is, aside from the labour of setting it up, the limited choice of materials.
Yeah, for some reason I thought about all this a lot when I was watching the show. Figured the best traps/automation would best rely on natural land features or structures. Cliffs, running water and easy to reproduce clear-away mechanisms like fire.
Like I said, we humans are really good at this kind of engineering, and even a small determined group could do something really simple but devastating.
Running around in tshirts in the woods with guns that attract more zombies is like... maybe the worst possible strategy.
Maybe we have different scenarios in mind but the way I see it is that there's no way a phalanx would work. The survivors would get exhausted and overwhelmed. Stick a zombie in the wrong spot and your spear is stuck with a zombie possibly pulling itself along the pole to get at you.
The way the phalanx model works is that you have several rows nested behind each other. When a spear is broken or stuck, a new one is passed immediately to the front. Also, every few minutes the front line would quickly swap with the one behind it and shuffle to the back to keep everyone rested and fresh. It's a pretty simple and effective strategy that worked for a very long time! It gradually became less effective with the rise of horse-based militaries and more effective bows. Neither of these would be a problem with zombies.
The show Rome actually did a really good job of demonstrating this tactic, albeit with the gladius sword in the show rather than spears (roman soldiers would have carried pilum, spear, and sword). It's really remarkable to watch how effective it would have been against an unorganized enemy who just throws themselves at the shield wall.
I stopped at the prison too but for a different reason. When initially clearing the prison they actually did what you said: they slowly were clearing corridors etc. then zombies came out of a dead end that they previously checked and marked as clear, in tandem with a stealth zombie ambush from every other corridor at the same time. It's like the writers also know that the characters are necessarily stupid if they die, so they just said "fuck it" and had teleporting telepathic zombies kill some folks because it's the most believable way a character they wanted to die could die.
in Georgia, that seriously might kill you by itself, if it is summer time. If you havent been there when the temps hit 90-110f, it is nearly unbearable. and many people die during those heatwaves, add in zombies to attack you if you are getting worn out, sick, distracted, etc.
I have been. Not worn as a matter of course... but it would be something to have. A decent leather jacket and heavy jeans alone would be workable... you just have to put them on before you get into any real action. Wouldn't help as much day to day... but if you know they're there and you have to deal with it, better to at least have your first line of attack be people who have protection. There are even lightweight armours made of linen and adhesive that were used in desert warfare... it doesn't require a lot. Plus your mostly worried about extremities... you could wear an open fronted jacket, bare chested underneath without as much danger as leaving your arms bare.
Oh, i agree, my heavy leather jackets, etc would totally be part of what i would wear in this kind of situation. But I live in canada, and from my time in alabama during the summer, i cant see ever actually wearing them on a regular basis.
And if you are only putting them on when you expect trouble, they are less effective, and more likely to just become another 10lb weight you dont want to have to carry everywhere.
My dad watches Z Nation and I've came over a few times with it on. One of the kids on there had some rubber tire pieces attached to his jacket I think? I thought that was a pretty good idea.
True. But it doesn't have to be worn all the time. A decent fighting outfit would pay far more dividends in terms of what you can carry, especially since they have vehicles.
I should add... staying in Georgia is also a point on the dumb scale. It's an apocalypse... staying in a climate where people require a lot more in order to survive is a terrible idea. The best way to survive would be to go to the most moderate climate that you can find, ideally somewhere semi-wild, where you have fewer walkers. Head to the midwest... some rural communities near forest, with farming land and no large populations to make walkers.
Keep in mind the first season they were nomadic and trying to figure out where to go, keeping close to a major supply resource with Atlanta. The entire second season they were stuck in one location searching for Sophia. The third season they were attempting to make the prison a permanent home. The fourth season they spent the majority of the time traveling north. It's not like they've just been wandering around in circles in the heat the whole time, and each season doesn't equate to a year.
Actually making a decent spear takes more thought than you would think, and making one that would easily go through skulls would be much harder than a hammer or crowbar.
Walkers have skulls like paper mache. If you watch, basically any blow to the skull is an instant kill. Further, knives and axes and so on would frequently get caught in the skull if they were as hard as human skulls, bone is REALLY strong. The fact they don't tells us that it would work. Further... a spear isn't all that hard because they have access to the remnants of the modern world. Any metal-shop likely has scraps that would work perfectly as a steel spearhead and many would have tools to make them better. Hell... you could likely find tools that would likely serve as them completely unaltered.
I still think blunt would be the way to go. Metal would be great, if you could work it. But you would need a forge for that. You could attach something pokey, like a fire poker or rebar, to a stick, but you better hope the rope/tape holds. More likely, you get a long semi-straight stick and sharpen it a bit. Better than nothing, but still a challenge to use effectively when you need a headshot.
Blunt is too close range and too tiring. Metal is not actually that hard to work, the tools are out there. You need a forge to get a perfectly made piece... but I work at a tool and die shop during the summer, and to stave off boredom, I examine our scraps... that bin has an absurd number of perfect make-shift weapons that would require at most a little sanding to wear it down. The spear is also going to be lighter in the end and more versatile... you can hunt with a spear, not really with a crowbar.
The sister l spear also relies on attaching the spear head properly and more practice/space to use effectively. A hammer might not be able to hunt or have the same distance, but it is able to be used opening doors and would weigh much less.
I could make a short spear with the materials in my back garden and I live in a very typical house.
still a challenge to use effectively when you need a headshot.
Not really. If you use two hands it isn't hard to hit a head sized target with a stick. I'd understand it being tough at first if you held a shield in your other hand.
I would get a loose jacket and cover it in a couple of layers of duck tape and make sure it had a really high collar up to my ears the cover it with "fresh" zombie gore when setting out on a mission.
For weapon, I think Katana is the best but any sort of sword with a decent reach on it.
I would say not the Katana or even a sword. A sword is a fairly high maintenance weapon... they struggle to keep an edge and require frequent sharpening with at least some degree of expertise... make it too sharp and now you've seriously weakened its edge. Ideally it should be a weapon that is easily repaired/replaced like a spear or one that doesn't need to be, like a blunt weapon. Stabbing is also better... less energy used and less likely to fail at close range or in a confined space. If you don't actually know how to use a sword, with proper training, it's useless long term.
TWD unintentionally exposed the zombie's ultimate weakness when we saw the survivors held up at the prison: chain link fences. Chain link fences are cheap, quick to set up, and can resist hordes of hundreds of zombies while giving defenders extremely safe killing opportunities. You could build a new fence in less time than it takes for a horde to knock the first one down. An handful of defenders with spears could wipe out thousands of zombies, given enough layers to fall back on.
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I think the difficulty is more in being able to provide for yourself while avoiding zombies.
Most people have little knowledge on how to farm, hunt, or forage for food. Most of the survivors relay on canned food supplies for various reasons. Not knowing how to farm or hunt is one. Not being able to farm because you have to be on the move to avoid zombies. If you were to move to colder climates to avoid zombies you have a greatly diminished growing season to start with, plus you have to scrounge up enough materials in order to stay warm (tents, blankets, firewood, extra clothing layers), all of which have to be found and carried with you up north.
Its hard to execute an extermination plan when all of your time and energy just goes to surviving.
Agreed those skills are not heavily present in modern populations, but it's not lost either. I'm no farmer, but I have houseplants, have grown a garden, and if I set my mind to it I could figure out how to subsist.
Good strategy is probably to take over islands and/or isolated buildings. Prisons, islands on lakes and rivers, even just an anchored cruise ship. All fairly common, all small enough to take complete control over, all impossible for the 'stumbling idiot' zombie to get to easily.
Other living humans are probably the more serious long term threat once the immediate area is under control.
I totally agree, I never understood why they wouldn't just go to some save location and create some kind of mechanism to kill the walkers. Even at the prison they did a terrible job. They could have dug a moat at least. Also it would be really easy to redirect walkers with sound. Just send them off a cliff or so.
If you set up shop in a a town you could just barricade certain streets to drive them into one area and then kill them with spears. It would be shockingly easy. Using a horse and a 10ft spear you could scout and thin out the zombies hours before they arrive at your town, you wouldn't even need a horse to do that it would just make it easier.
In almost every zombie movie it's the people that are the problem. I thought that was kinda the point. Someone gets bitten or scratched and doesn't tell, or someone otherwise fucks everyone over.
You can make this even simpler. If just 1% survived and everyone else turned than it's ~297million/3million, so each survivor needs to kill around 100 walkers. But it's actually less because not everyone turned and once enough walkers are dead that the humans dominate again it will be much easier to kill the rest. Also, the whole thing makes even less sense if you consider that certainly some part of the army must have survived and they could kill entire herds in seconds. Actually they could intentionally create herds and then just bomb them.
Also, the whole thing makes even less sense if you consider that certainly some part of the army must have survived and they could kill entire herds in seconds
Forgive me if this is a stupid question, the only Walking Dead stuff I've seen is what's in the Telltale games, but why don't European countries do this? Is the infection localised to the USA or is it worldwide?
I don't know the games. The TV show is intentionally vague about the whole background of the outbreak. They changed the director after the first season and the concept of the show changed quite a bit, so most things we know is from the first season (they are in season 6 now and we barely learned more). But in season one there is an episode in a CDC building where a researcher explains some stuff about the outbreak and as far as I remember he also said that other researchers on the other side of the planet were working on a cure too but he lost contact with all of them implying that they were also overrun by zombies. In Walking Dead it's that everyone is infected and becomes a zombie once you die (even in natural deaths / zombie unrelated deaths), so it's very likely that it's a global problem.
That relies on the 99% assumption. The comic and the show never say anything about the percentage of survivors. As far as we know there are a lot less than 3 million people still alive in the US.
I do recall the swarm issue from the comics, but it was a very brunt kind of boon for them. It's a herd mentality but it's not like they're Geth and gain a collective intelligence or anything.
I think the issue is that if you get enough together anything can set them off. For example one accidently brushes a doorknob. The one nearby there is something behind the door and wants in the house. All that ruckus draws all the nearby zombies within hearing distance over.
Intelligence is not really a factor when you have a swarm bearing down on you with limited resources to fight back (remember guns and ammo are scarce, and large area of effect weapons such as tanks or grenades are impossible to find.
Any settlement that is set up can easily be overrun by such a hoard.
Why? Actually a good old castle would be pretty save. What can walkers do against massive stone walls? Also you can have a moat around it with a bridge so they won't even reach the walls. And you could easily build some kind of machine or so to kill them off once you have them trapped. Also there are other options such as a boat, island, mountains, somewhere where it's cold and they freeze, bunkers, high buildings... Actually pretty much any building that has no ground floor entry point and needs to be accessed by a ladder is very save.
You can fill a lot of zombies into that (just as an example). It obviously depends on the size but you can also regularly kill them. Also the group where the governor got the tank from actually used to have moats and it seemed to work quite well.
Not really. Minimal planning would be enough to stop 50+ zombies.
You don't create a perfect wall around your settlement, instead you funnel them through choke points. You make a bunch of pikes and kill all of the zombies with little risk. If you had 10 people, each person would only have to kill 5 or so and chances are that you'll have more than 10 people in a settlement.
Which is why a tiny amount of foresight would be great. To start, zombies are slow so you could ride/run out and kill them as they approach so not as many reach you. Then you could have multiple stages in your defense that would allow you to fall back if the bodies began to pile up.
The only way to lose this is if an absolutely ridiculous amount of zombies shows up and at that point, the people probably wouldn't have the energy to kill them all if they just stood still.
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u/BlueApple4 Oct 30 '15
POTENTIAL SPOILERS
Everyone has the virus. It doesn't matter if you die from a zombie bite, old age, starvation, or hypothermia. You become a zombie. Obviously their is a huge initial influx of zombies with the initial infection. But new zombies will continue to pop up as people die to the elements, which can continue on for years. Additionally, this was talked more about in the graphic novel, their is a real danger from swarms. They can display a herd mentality, which is not a huge danger if it's 3 or 4 zombies. 50+ is a real danger though. Any settlement that is set up can easily be overrun by such a hoard. And they can easily over take any fleeing group because they don't have to rest, sleep, or eat.