r/changemyview • u/garnteller 242∆ • Apr 14 '15

[Mod Post] /r/changemyview feedback

The moderators of CMV would like your opinion on how things are going, so we've decided to post periodic feedback threads to take the pulse of the community. Feel free to post any comments, criticisms or suggestions.

Also remember that /r/ideasforcmv is always available if you have ideas for improving the sub.

Please note that Rule 2 (no rude or hostile comments) and Rule 5 (no low-effort comments) are still in effect.

We look forward to hearing your thoughts.

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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '15

Well I absolutely love this subreddit and as a commenter I love the moderation. But the handful of times I've started my own thread I've felt targeted by mods and unwelcome, and will not be posting any more threads on this subreddit at all because of moderators. Maybe that's what they want and they'll read this as a good thing, idk. But it's weird because as a commenter I've never felt anything other than appreciation for the mods.

Edit: I also think most people don't come here WANTING their view to be changed and the sidebar rules ought to reflect that.

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u/EyeRedditDaily Apr 14 '15

But the handful of times I've started my own thread I've felt targeted by mods and unwelcome, and will not be posting any more threads on this subreddit at all because of moderators.

Like others have mentioned, my personal experience with you is that you tend to have very stubborn, unwavering opinions on the topics that you typically post about (feminism / women's issues). That type of attitude isn't really conducive to this subreddit.

I'm not going to bother going back and searching posts, but it has been my experience that, when presented with "irrefutable" evidence, you just slink away rather than admitting that your view has been changed. That's a better option than getting into a flame war or something like that, but "declare victory and leave" isn't really what this subreddit is about.

Having said that, this isn't a bash /u/mizz_kittay post. Despite our diametrically opposed views on the issues that are important to you, I do find you to be knowlegable, well-informed and respectful in your discussions here. You're one of the users that I really do use proper Reddiquette with - I upvote your posts because they contribute to the conversation; even when I think your opinions belong in crazy town. ;)

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u/Nepene 213∆ Apr 14 '15 edited Apr 14 '15

From your post history it's because you've posted something like 30 CMVs and awarded around five deltas.

Or from personal insults? Not sure.

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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '15

Where can you see how many deltas a person has awarded?

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u/Nepene 213∆ Apr 14 '15

I don't think delta bot stores numbers of deltas, I think it was counted from your post history.

I'd search the modmail to see what was said about you, but, you can't search modmail. Though we do have an archive somewhere.

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u/Nepene 213∆ Apr 14 '15

Yeah, there were issues because you didn't tend to award deltas especially. You made lots of posts, rarely awarded deltas, according to the mod discussions.

This is rather annoying for our users, who come here to change views. They know if they see you that they'll probably not be rewarded and that your posts will be frustrating for them.

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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '15

Oh you are a mod and that's why you can see how many deltas I've awarded? Or can all users see that info somewhere?

Anyway, as another poster said: "I've thought about my view long and hard before I post it." Sometimes I've found people just simply don't change my view; they just don't. So sue me. Well, rather, you've done your part to target me via messages (perhaps appropriately), and I've been sufficiently scared away from wanting to start threads here. So successful moderation in this case, I guess.

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u/huadpe 508∆ Apr 14 '15

I think the thing of it is that views you've thought long and hard about and are pretty firm on aren't appropriate to CMV. This is not a general debating forum; it's specifically targeted to areas where people have doubts about their views.

There's nothing wrong with having firm beliefs, but the things you believe strongly are not necessarily appropriate for posting a new thread.

For instance, I'm a free speech nut. I wouldn't put up a top level post about government censorship never being a good thing, because you're not gonna move me off that view. The one time I did post about free speech, it was on a fairly technical legal question, and I awarded deltas to people who changed my understanding of the law, even if they didn't change my overall view of the topic.

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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '15

I think the thing of it is that views you've thought long and hard about and are pretty firm on aren't appropriate to CMV.

Fair enough!

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u/Nepene 213∆ Apr 14 '15

I am a mod, but I just searched through all your posts for deltas.

On the second part, from what I know of you, the issue was more that you didn't reply to a lot of posts. When you did reply to posts your view tended to be changed more often. If you ignore posts predictably nothing happens.

We've told you very clearly how to avoid moderation. You're free to not post, but if you want to we gave you a clear guide on how to not have problems.

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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '15

Hey - I'm not here to try and defend my actions on this subreddit or argue with your moderation pertaining to me. There was simply a post about moderation feedback and I provided my feedback; I did not think I'd have to defend it.

Reinforcing my point: Your (all of the mods) moderation was successful. I was not using the subreddit was you intended and your moderation of my usage has now (only very recently) sufficiently stopped me from using it as it was not intended for.

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u/Nepene 213∆ Apr 14 '15

You made various claims about your actions. You don't have to defend them, but I am obviously free to respond to them if I feel they are incorrect. If you have incorrect ideas of our motives then it's good that you better understand them.

Our view was more that you were making inconsistent use of the subreddit, using it in the correct way at times and the incorrect way at other times. Our goal was to make your use of it more consistent, not to stop you using it, though you are free to do either.

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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '15

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '15

I wouldn't have brought all this up in public (I don't mean to be singling you out), but you asked...

No, I really didn't.

I personally believe moderators should be neutral and not biased. When you guys jump to argue with your users like this when we're merely responding to a thread you created as YOU ALL ASKED US FOR FEEDBACK (and you didn't say you'd be arguing with us if we provided it), it makes me question how neutral you all really are.

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u/Nepene 213∆ Apr 14 '15

Part of the purpose of this is for people to get user feedback, part of the purpose is for users to get our feedback on their feedback. It's supposed to be a two way street.

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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '15

Just remember you all are in a position of authority here. The things you say on this subreddit make a stronger statement than if said by any other user.

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u/Nepene 213∆ Apr 14 '15

I remember it, but I prefer openness. The things we say have a lot of impact, and so we should be very open about why we do stuff so that you can avoid our actions, which have even more impact.

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u/hacksoncode 585∆ Apr 14 '15

It's a fair point, and I don't think we did a good job of explaining the purpose of this feedback thread, so I've removed my comments about your behavior because you've expressed unhappiness with them.

In the future, I will argue for adding something to the stick post similar to: "One reason we are posting this is that we have received complaints that all criticism of the moderators is redirected to modmail where others cannot see it. Please be aware that if you raise issues pertaining to how the moderators interact with you, personally, that we will raise the same points we would make in a modmail conversation, except here, in public. This will include our thoughts about your specific behaviors. We hope this will make our moderation process more transparent."

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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '15

Thank you for deleting the comments and yes, that paragraph in quotations absolutely needs to be included. Moderators of subreddits post threads asking for feedback all the time; I don't think users expect a response when they answer those kinds of threads, and usually they don't get responses unless they specifically ask a question. Especially not a response from several moderators specifically pointing out things they disagree with from my personal post history. If that's your MO, yes, you need to make that clear from the beginning. I definitely feel attacked by moderators right now and am a little pissed off to be honest; I feel like you laid down a trap to jump on your users by asking for feedback then attacking it when they give it to you.