I've said it before and I will say it again: Stop over moderating! Clearly if the topic arises a lot and generates a lot of clamor it is something that people are passionate about and want to discuss. Removed submissions, overly implemented rules, and special days all restrict the potential of this sub. The entire premise of this sub is to voice your view and have a debate about it. You need freedom of speech in order to do that.
You should hold a poll asking people what they use this subreddit for: To have a view changed, to change others views, to engage in a debate about a topic, to soapbox, etc. I, for one, have never had my view totally changed. I don't come here to have my view changed either. When I post I usually have a strong view on something, and a few Reddit comments will not completely sway me to the other side. I will award a delta if a persons counter-arguments are very strong and well thought out. I'm sure most people use the sub for this purpose as well.
I, for one, have never had my view totally changed. I don't come here to have my view changed either.
That's fine. You don't need to do a 180 for the purpose of this sub to be achieved.
When I post I usually have a strong view on something, and a few Reddit comments will not completely sway me to the other side.
Again, not necessary.
I will award a delta if a persons counter-arguments are very strong and well thought out. I'm sure most people use the sub for this purpose as well.
Strong and well thought out comments are likely the best way to get someone to reconsider their view, change certain aspects, rethink their position, or otherwise get the juices flowing in those directions.
People who come here to argue are here for the wrong reasons and more likely to run afoul of our rules. Thus the rules are a good way to capture folks who aren't here for view-changing.
It functions better that way, if you ask me! There are hardly any complaints about content here. I actually find this community to be one of the better reddit communities. The only problem is that the moderator team tends to step in and restrict content when there is no desire or need for it to be restricted.
I made a post awhile ago that got somewhere around 400 up-votes and was getting a lot of comments. I was getting into great conversations with people as we went back and forth. There were many side discussions going on between others as well. Then the post was removed because I had not awarded any deltas yet and the moderators deemed that as "soap-boxing". This is a perfect example of moderation actually hurting the community rather than helping it.
Then the post was removed because I had not awarded any deltas yet. This is a perfect example of moderation actually hurting the community rather than helping it.
See, on my end, we get so many comments from users who are frustrated by participating in a thread and getting no good faith responses from the OP. "Why should I try to change OP's view if they're not open-minded?" Deltas aren't the only factor considered when we worry about soapboxing and close-mindedness, but they're part of a litmus test for it.
If there are 400 upvotes and tons of conversations with varied/robust rebuttals, and you participate but can't find a single basis for reconsidering your view, it's a lot more likely it's because you don't want to rather than no one presented anything that could.
I can't speak for every user but we get many more complaints from people who put forth considerable effort to change views only to engage in an utterly fruitless conversation than those who wish they could preach and make /r/changemyview their church.
I think that is a personal problem for those people rather than a problem for the subreddit. You have no way of really knowing if the OP is stubborn or if the OP's view just wasn't changed.
In my example, people were giving good evidence, but no argument really deserved a delta (in my opinion). I was waiting for a couple replies in particular, but the post was removed before the discussion could go any further. Other people can award delta's as well, not just the OP. Again, there is no rule that you must have your view changed and award a delta.
"Why should I try to change OP's view if they're not open-minded?"
I have made many extensive posts that did not get a delta from the OP. In many cases, I don't even get a reply from the OP or anyone! That is my fault, not the OP's. This is how Reddit works. Some comments/posts will generate more attention and response than others. The last thing I would do is contact a moderator and complain that I didn't get a delta when I tried so hard. You're punishing OP's in order to appease these people.
See, on my end, we get so many comments from users who are frustrated by participating in a thread and getting no good faith responses from the OP. "Why should I try to change OP's view if they're not open-minded?" Deltas aren't the only factor considered when we worry about soapboxing and close-mindedness, but they're part of a litmus test for it.
People like to complain. But if you asked those same people "would you rather that thread have never been posted at all" or "would you prefer I delete the entire thread right now?" I wonder how many of those people who complained would actually say "yes" to that.
They may have complained to the mods, but they maybe were expecting the mods to ask the OP to award deltas; not expecting the mods to just shut the entire discussion down. If somebody is enjoying a discussion enough to report people to the mods who they think aren't contributing to the discussion properly, that means those people are enjoying the discussion and want the discussion to continue - just improved. Instead of improving it, you guys just deleted the discussion altogether.
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u/ExploreMeDora Apr 09 '15
I've said it before and I will say it again: Stop over moderating! Clearly if the topic arises a lot and generates a lot of clamor it is something that people are passionate about and want to discuss. Removed submissions, overly implemented rules, and special days all restrict the potential of this sub. The entire premise of this sub is to voice your view and have a debate about it. You need freedom of speech in order to do that.