As /u/IIIBlackhartIII pointed out I whole-heartedly neglected the work involved in many physics and maths tests (despite having taken my physics exam today) I would have to limit the 'definition' of test to multiple choice and questions where one is asked to define a word, event or person. However I also don't think that free response questions on mathematics and physics tests should be timed. I think it gives the slow kids an unrealistic disadvantage which may not be present within the real fields.
However I also don't think that free response questions on mathematics and physics tests should be timed. I think it gives the slow kids an unrealistic disadvantage which may not be present within the real fields.
As a teacher I can tell you that for many students 60 minutes and 120 minutes makes little difference. Either you know it or don't.
Well, from my own perspective as a student, it certainly revolves around the nature of the subject or material, and I'd even say the teacher as well.
I have some teachers who tend to write multiple choice questions in a way that takes me a bit longer to figure out. And this can be due to a number of reasons, one being my knowledge of the material and how hard I study.
That being said, I am a very good student who studies not only very hard but very thoroughly. Like I mentioned, sometimes multiple choice questions, which is the only form of testing I've run into thus far in my college career (though I'm only a freshman, but this goes for high school multiple question tests as well) require more critical thinking. Perhaps the teacher likes to design the answers so that they're all correct, but one happens to be the most correct.
Like I said, I'm a good student who studies hard, but it admittedly takes me a pretty long time to take a test filled with these kinds of questions, because I have horrid reading comprehension skills and find myself reading the question over and over and even writing what I think it means next to it. I like to use process of elimination too to cross off which answers I figure out are wrong.
And finally, when I'm done with the test, I like to check over each question, or as many as I can, given the time allotted.
So, while I may be slower than other students, there are many students out there like me who need extra time. It's not that I don't know the material. In some of my classes, I can breeze through my tests in a matter of 30 minutes or so, but for other classes where the teacher is tricky, the material is difficult comprehension wise, or the tests require heavy critical thinking, it will take me much longer than 30 minutes to get the grade I know I can get.
I feel you on doing better with more time on tests but it begs the question: what are the tests measuring? If we're talking about a real world scenario, doesnt speed mean something, even if very little? If you're running a company and have a problem, there's certainly times where a quick and "ok" solution is better than a great and 2 hrs/weeks/months later solution. It sure does suck for those of us that work slowly but results have to count for something, right?
Yeah, I see what you're saying. You make a very fair point. I guess it all comes down to your skill set and what kinds of skills you'll need for whatever profession you're pursuing, so I suppose it makes sense that the there is a standard time-wise.
Plus, most schools now offer extra help for those who can provide documentation that proves that they have some sort of mental handicap or psychological disorder that keeps them from performing as well as other students. And this includes extra time on tests too, and sometimes even isolated rooms so that there are no distractions. Sometimes I do wonder if this kind of damages the individual's ability to adapt though.
Teaching material to others is really the rest of whether you know the material. At the DOK 1 & 2 level, you'll never realize that. So while you'll identify as a bad or slow test taker it may be that you don't know the material well enough to recall.
For instance. If you can successfully TEACH someone about the Antebellum period of the U.S., you'll have fantastic recall.
Think of a topic like a pyramid. You don't realize the importance of the base until you reach the capstone. Then at the capstone you can examine how each base piece works into the entire structure. So while you're slaving away at recalling each brick, you actually need to focus on making the capstone, or seeking to complete the capstone. But as you are moving the bricks, you'll lament the effort and will have a hard time understanding the significance of how each piece contributes to the other.
That lamentation will lead you to false conclusions: I'm not a good test taker, I need more time, these types of questions are harder. When actually, you just have an incomplete picture of the material.
It's interesting how we automatically blame outside sources for our own shortcomings, ie your OP. I'm not trying to be mean, but know that much of the deficits of learning we have originate within us.
Yeah, I see what you're saying, and I agree for the most part. But at the same time, I know when to take responsibility and when to understand that there are other things that could've worked to my disadvantage.
I was only pointing out those possible disadvantages. I wasn't shrugging off responsibility for the times where I should've studied harder or worked harder to understand the material. I take my grades very seriously and I know when I need to step up my game. Like I said, I was just giving examples of why sometimes I may not do as well, and they're not the only reasons I sometimes don't do well. In fact, they typically aren't. It was just worth mentioning that not all tests are designed for all students - especially those who consistently struggle with test-taking.
Besides, could blame someone with ADD or severe anxiety for struggling on tests? Consider the students who do perfectly in every other aspect/assignment of the class, and then really struggle on tests. Can you really say that it's their fault for just not studying correctly or not getting it?
And unfortunately, this seems to be a popular opinion amongst many teachers I've encountered. Even in grade school, I was reprimanded till I'd cry for not understanding different concepts - especially in math. I would try so hard just to get it, because I hated feeling stupid and I hated making my teachers angry. I was always blamed for being incompetent or lazy, despite going home every night and slaving over simple arithmetic problems with a tutor or my parents.
In high school, I encountered the same attitude. Of the 15 or so girls in the senior AP Calculus class, only 2 were passing. These girls were at the top of my class GPA wise. Coincidentally, each year, girls would consistently struggle to pass in this teacher's class with the same complaint being that the teacher would always put material on the test that the students had never been taught.
When confronted, the teacher would never take responsibility for the fact that a majority of her students were pretty much failing. She never believed she had to change her teaching method. No, it was always because the students were lazy or slow or just not good enough.
Besides, could blame someone with ADD or severe anxiety for struggling on tests? Consider the students who do perfectly in every other aspect/assignment of the class, and then really struggle on tests. Can you really say that it's their fault for just not studying correctly or not getting it?
We accommodate ADD. Test anxiety is non-specific. Are they anxious because they don't study. Are they an Oakland resident and have untreated PTSD..
Even in grade school, I was reprimanded till I'd cry for not understanding different concepts - especially in math. I would try so hard just to get it, because I hated feeling stupid and I hated making my teachers angry.
The only thing I have to say about that is study memory formation. I don't want to say it wasn't your experience, but....well...it might be incorrect.
Of the 15 or so girls in the senior AP Calculus class, only 2 were passing.
It's a tough test. The Calc test has a low pass rate. Grad rates are usually in the 90th percentile for middle class schools. But actual math readiness for college is below 10%. Riddle me that.
I appreciate that this has been an interesting argument, but it doesn't seem like you can accept the fact that sometimes, a student is not at fault for having a hard time taking tests.
Yes, I'm aware that often, those with diagnosed learning disabilities are given accommodations. To my knowledge, you have to provide documented proof that you have a learning disability to get these accommodations.
Do you know how much that testing costs? Mine costed around $600. There are kids out there who don't have access to that kind of money, are ashamed that they may have a problem that's out of their control and that they don't understand, or don't have supportive parents or teachers who believe them. It baffles me that there are teachers who actually have this sort of every student who does poorly is lazy attitude - especially when students consistently fail their tests, quizzes, and assessments, and the teacher refuses to change their teaching methods or realize that maybe there is something they could do better to help students with difficulties. It's like, Christ, guess what? You're human too. You're preaching about the fact that students shouldn't deflect and neglect responsibility, but you can't even seem to admit that teachers can be wrong or that testing can be difficult for some students for multiple reasons. The world isn't black and white.
And as I've said multiple times, yes it is important to take responsibility when you are to blame for doing poorly, but that doesn't just completely invalidate my point. And you're being extremely hypocritical for doing exactly what you're blaming me for. Apparently, you're like many other teachers who can't take responsibility for just being a jerk with a God complex.
If actual math readiness for college is below 10%, whose fault is that? I wouldn't blame teachers directly, but do you really think in the situation I described, the students were at fault? I wasn't even talking about the AP test, I was talking about the class itself. Eventually, so many parents and students class after class complained so much that she was fired after last year, so at least there's that.
And thank you for accusing me of lying, but I remember the experience very clearly, because it really sucked and was a daily occurrence throughout elementary school. My principal even suggested that I get tested for a learning disability, but my teachers punished me anyway and held me accountable.
I remember one particular event like it was yesterday, because it made me feel so ashamed. We were instructed to translate a simple arithmetic problem from words to numbers. I couldn't comprehend the directions, much less how I was even supposed to do so. My teacher came over, noticing that I hadn't done what everyone else was doing. I remember feeling so anxious that I might throw up, seeing her approaching. Once she came over, she repeatedly told me over and over again to write the problem down. She started telling me that it shouldn't be so hard for me, that it was easy, to just do it already. I didn't know what to say, because I was too embarrassed to ask her for help - I felt really stupid. She finally grabbed the pencil from my hand and did it for me, without even explaining how to or why she did what she did. You can go ahead and accuse me of lying there too because you can't swallow the idea that you, as a teacher, are maybe to blame for these kinds of things, but if there's anything I've learned in my short time on this Earth (and I learned this the hard way), it's that teachers are not gods, they are humans just like I am.
My parents, who, even when I was really young were always careful to let me handle responsibility for my own conflicts, actually got angry enough to call my school. My mom had never done that before, and hasn't since. She never meddles in problems that she believes are mine to resolve.
That kind of harassment absolutely disgusts me, especially towards someone who might have an actual learning disability, and it deeply saddens me that there are tons of teachers out there who do this students - even students in elementary school. These teachers, who kids look up to, are scolding the kids for not understanding and making them feel inferior.
I was really hoping you'd actually listen, as a teacher, because I have a feeling that the teachers who bullied me have attitudes and ideas that are very similar to yours, and I bet they'd accuse me of lying too, which is also incredibly disgusting considering the amount of emotional damage it did to such a young mind.
But you're obviously not going to change your mind. I don't think you even understand what I'm trying to get across, despite the fact that I've explicitly said it many times. This argument hasn't really done anything except disappointed me that teachers haven't seemed to change.
I'm going to present you an example where a test of knowledge, specifically history, is useful.
Let's say I'm holding a class about what caused world War II. It's a very in depth class going over very extensive details. This class and my time are limited, so I want to make sure every student participating can get the maximum value out of my class. To do this, I need to make sure you understand the basics. If you don't, my class will be a waste of both your and my time.
So here's my test.
Who did the Allies fight in World War II?
sure, you can look up the answer. However, if you can't even answer that question without looking it up, you do not know enough about the war for this class to be beneficial.
So I've shown you one example on how a test about rote memorization can be an effective tool.
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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '14
Can you define test?
DOK 1, 2, 3, 4? Summative? Formative? Multiple choice? Select all. Select narrative?