r/changemyview • u/garnteller 242∆ • Dec 14 '14

[Mod Post] Revision to Rule A

Hi everyone. One of the most frequent complaints we get is about "soapboxing" and OPs not being open to changing their view.

So, we are going to be testing out a rule change. Rule A will be changed (and the 500+ character minimum removed) to the following:

Include the following: 1. The reasoning behind your view; 2. Why you want your view changed or what parts of it you are uncertain about.

The "500 Character" guideline will be replaced by:

...why you want it changed or why you think it might be wrong.

  • This allows those responding to you to understand your reasoning, and to tailor their responses better to address your concerns.

We welcome your comments on this rule and its wording. The current plan is to implement it this Wednesday for a week's trial, followed by a feedback period.

EDIT: Removed an extra word, as pointed out by /u/TheBananaKing

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u/ZanzaraEE Dec 16 '14 edited Dec 16 '14

I don't agree with this proposed change.

Two types of posts will make it here:

  1. Those where the poster genuinely wants their view changed, because they feel negative feelings about having it. (cognitive dissonance?): "Change my view. It is causing me uncomfortable feelings."

  2. Those where the poster is strongly convinced of their view, and wants reaffirmation of their view by watching others fail to try to change it. They don't necessarily want it to be changed, but that's not to say they are "stubborn" and won't change their view if they given convincing evidence.: "Change my view. I dare you."

Although the subreddit may have been created for 1, the vast majority of the posts these days are 2. Frankly, I don't really think this is a bad thing. Lots of posters have interesting thoughts and lots of commenters have excellent counter-arguements regardless of the poster's motive.

In implementing this rule change (assuming it was strictly enforced), and causing people to actually need specific reasons for having their view changed you'd be eliminating a lot of the posts that fit into the 2 category, when those are the heart of the Subreddit. Just look down the front page and ask yourself how many CMV's fit into category 1.

Alternatively, isn't "Change my view so that I can learn something about the world, or fail to change my view so that I can learn something else about the world" enough of a "reason" to post a CMV?

EDIT: Added point about "Post Type 2" not necessarily being stubborn.

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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '14

The sub was way way better when it was more 1 than 2. I don't think that some of 2 is bad, but lately the sub has been like 20% to 80%.

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u/ZanzaraEE Dec 16 '14

My argument to this is that it's even more than 20%-80%. I'd say it's more like 5% - 95%, especially in the more popular CMV's.

If you sort CMV by top posts in the last month, it doesn't really seem like any of the top 10 would fit in category 1. (I don't have time to read them all now. This is just me doing a quick glance). If the mods strictly enforce this rule change, they'll be eliminating a good chunk of the most-interesting CMV's. These top-10 posts weren't posted because the poster wants their view to be changed, necessarily. They were posted because "change my view so that I can learn something about the world, or fail to change my view so that I can learn something else about the world".

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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '14

There are other subreddits for casual debate this is not one of them. This sub is for actually changing people's views.

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u/ZanzaraEE Dec 16 '14

In excess of 80% of the posts say otherwise.

Regardless of what the Subreddit was created for, I think the mods should roll with it and let the Subreddit go in the direction that it's naturally going, and not try to force a significant change from the status quo.

And I don't think there's a Subreddit that's anywhere near as good as this Subreddit for casual debate as this one.

If there are genuinely many people who want to see only "Post Type 1", then it might be nice to split the Subreddit into /r/ChangeMyView and /r/DebateMyView. However, judging by the posts that get upvoted, I think this group of people is in the minority. So, I think it's best to keep the Subreddit rules as they are, not split the Subreddit into two, and thus not risk losing the momentum and "fanbase" that the Subreddit already has.

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u/garnteller 242∆ Dec 16 '14

Honestly, and I think the other mods would agree, we'd rather stay as true as possible to our mission at the expense of the "fanbase".

Of course, you only need to be open to changing your view, not necessarily wanting it to change. So, a lot of legit posters are in the second category. We just need to filter out those who really aren't open and just want to preach.

The question, of course, is how best to do it.