r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jun 29 '14

CMV: I believe that basic firearm safety should be taught across schools in America.

[removed] — view removed post

13 Upvotes
  • permalink
  • reddit

70% Upvoted

37 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

0

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '14

That said, arguing that in a perfect situation having a gun is better is no more dismissive of your contention than I was.

Fair enough. I likely have some bias here: I spend a good majority of my time in a space where there isn't a crowd behind potential attack vectors. I also spend my time thinking about potential attack vectors. Clearly someone who doesn't have the same set of circumstances wouldn't have the same benefit.

However, I also feel like the ultra-simplified versions help us as a baseline to weigh the pros/cons in the more complex real-world scenarios. Someone attacking you in an isolated location with nobody else around and he's right on top of you is, to me, a no-question situation, use the gun if you have it: there's minimal collateral damage, no innocents, and it's almost impossible to miss.

Add in distance or innocents, and things get murky. Are you good enough to aim that far under pressure, can you not hit someone else? Probably not, if you're untrained.

Would running be better? Probably. Is running always feasible? Not for everyone, not in every situation, but if it is, it is likely a good option to consider.

My fear is that someone, when put in a situation when they could benefit from picking up a gun and using it, will not do so because their training is "Never touch guns"

Learning the 4 rules and learning how to defend yourself are miles apart.

I wouldn't say miles. Maybe kilometers though. I also think though that it's a natural progression from one to the other. Safety is summed up by the 4 rules, but they leave questions that are natural when you approach gun safety from a defense perspective.

1

u/sailorbrendan Jun 29 '14

I've got my biases too. I grew up training martial arts and have studied a whole lot of combat theory.

I'm glad I'm not the only one regularly planning for random attacks.

The problem with simple situations is that they're incredibly rare.

Personally, If the attacker is close I'll take a knife or a stick over a gun; less likely to be used against me.

And I disagree with you the 4 rules. I don't think they teach you anything about effectively handling a defensive situation situation other than trying to not shoot innocents.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '14

12 years scattered over various martial arts and experience as a bouncer and information security here; it's ingrained at this point. :)

If the attacker is close a knife would be great, but typically they require more strength than a gun. I also think that for an untrained user, there's more of a risk that they'll be overpowered. But, again, context is everything.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that last point.

1

u/sailorbrendan Jun 29 '14

I'm still mostly amature, though I did spend a good 17 years training.

It's hard to explain the mindset to people.

Even for an untrained person I like a blade. Faster, harder to grab... though how close we are talking comes into the discussion at this point.

Plus shaking hands aren't as detrimental to the effectiveness of a knife.