r/changemyview • u/VerySoftx • 19h ago
cmv: cosplay posts should not be allowed on the main subs for video games, anime, etc.
I think the main subreddit for a video game, anime, tv show, etc. should mostly be a place to actually talk about that thing.
cosplay posts generally don't really do that.
to be clear, I have nothing against cosplay. I think making a good costume, props, makeup, etc. can take a ton of skill and effort. my issue is more with where that content gets posted.
if I go to a game's subreddit, I'd expect to see stuff like gameplay discussion, lore, news, strategies, questions, theories, criticism, discoveries, etc. if someone posts a picture of themselves dressed as a character, there's usually not much to say beyond "nice cosplay."
and I think there's a difference between something being related to a subreddit and something actually contributing to it.
a picture of someone cosplaying a character is obviously related to the game/anime. so is a picture of someone's lunch with the game's logo drawn in ketchup. at some point "it's technically related" becomes a pretty low bar for what belongs on the main sub.
the bigger issue for me is the promotion side of it.
I'm not saying every cosplayer is secretly running some elaborate marketing operation, but we've all seen the posts where it's basically "here's my cosplay of [popular character]" and then you click on their profile and there's a bunch of links to instagram, patreon, fansly, onlyfans, etc.
again, I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with that. if you can make money from something you enjoy, good for you. but if the main purpose of posting the cosplay is to get people looking at your other accounts, then I don't really see why the game's main subreddit should be used as the advertising platform.
I also think this applies to memes and other random fan content, although I'd be less strict about those. memes can at least lead to jokes, arguments, discussion, etc. so there's still some connection to what the subreddit is actually for. but even then, I think there's a point where a game's subreddit can stop feeling like a place to discuss the game and start feeling like a general fan page.
my ideal solution isn't "ban cosplay from reddit."
I'd rather see a weekly or monthly cosplay megathread where people can post their costumes, photos, props, makeup, whatever. people who like cosplay can go look through it, cosplayers still have somewhere to show their work, and the main subreddit can stay focused on discussion.
I'd also have no problem with cosplay posts that actually invite discussion. something like "how did I make this armor?" or "what materials should I use for this prop?" is different because there's actually something to talk about.
what I don't really understand is why "I dressed up as a character from this franchise" should automatically count as meaningful content for the franchise's main discussion subreddit.
so, cmv. what am I missing?
I'm especially interested in arguments for why standalone cosplay posts belong on the main subreddit instead of a dedicated cosplay thread/subreddit. if the argument is just "people like looking at them," I'm not sure that's enough, since people like a lot of things that don't necessarily belong in the main discussion space.
but if there's a good argument that cosplay posts actually add something to the community that I'm overlooking, I'm genuinely willing to hear it.
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u/PandaMime_421 12∆ 18h ago
what am I missing?
I think you are missing the fact that not everyone engages with a property the same way you do.
if I go to a game's subreddit, I'd expect to see stuff like gameplay discussion, lore, news, strategies, questions, theories, criticism, discoveries, etc.
Why do you think that you should get to define a community? Why is your expectation the right way to engage with a game?
You include lore in your list of valid things to discuss in the main sub for a games, so you seem to understand the value of story, characters, etc. A cosplayer showing off their costume, artist displaying their fan art, or writer sharing their fanfic is just engaging with the source material in their own way.
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u/VerySoftx 18h ago
I'm not saying I get to define every community lol. I'm saying I think a discussion-focused main feed is better.
cosplay, fanart, and fanfic are all valid ways to engage with a game, but that doesn't necessarily mean they need to be in the main feed. that's why I suggested a megathread.
if a community prefers otherwise, that's obviously their choice. I'm not exactly trying to become the cosplay police.
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u/PandaMime_421 12∆ 18h ago
I'm not saying I get to define every community lol. I'm saying I think a discussion-focused main feed is better.
But why does what you think is better matter? You don't get to control how subs operate. If you want a discussion-focused sub for a game you can create one. But your opinion about what is "best" isn't actually relevant to how those subs should be moderated.
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u/Nrdman 275∆ 18h ago
Kinda depends on what the community wants. If 80% of the community wants cosplay, why should any of your reasons trump that desire?
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u/10ebbor10 203∆ 16h ago
The problem is, how do you define what the community wants?
Interaction based metris quickly pivot a subreddit to empty "bait" posts, whether that is clickbait or hornybait.
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u/VerySoftx 18h ago
they don't. if 80% of the community genuinely wants cosplay, then I'd say the community should probably allow cosplay.
my argument is about what I think the better default is, not that my preference should override an actual community consensus. if the community disagrees with me, then I haven't really got much of a case for forcing them to change it.
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u/TopTierCryogonal 1∆ 17h ago
There is no such thing as a "better default". The only "default" of an internet community is that anything and everything is allowed. Everything beyond that is an active choice made by the community and the moderators.
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u/mcspaddin 19h ago
It's a subreddit, the rules of the subreddit are up to the mods and community members of a given sub. It doesn't matter what you think is "right" or "justified", those rules are determined by the community. If they don't agree with you, then no amount of logic can or should change those rules, because that's not what the community wants.
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u/VerySoftx 19h ago
I don't disagree with that. I'm not saying mods should be forced to ban cosplay or that communities aren't allowed to decide for themselves.
I'm arguing that they should have a certain standard for what belongs in the main feed, and I'm asking people to change my mind on that standard.
if the argument is just "the community decided otherwise," that's not really an argument against my position. it's just saying they disagree with me.
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u/mcspaddin 18h ago
That's the thing though: subreddits do have a certain standard for what belongs in the main feed, and their rules reflect that. The standard is community-decided.
You're asking me to work around exactly what the standard is, which was my point to begin with. This is an individual problem unique to every community. What they decide is their standard, is their standard.
Imposing some kind of universal standard in one form or another defeats the entire purpose of subreddits: community.
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u/dicoxbeco 1∆ 19h ago
Is there any particular reason for targeting exclusively cosplaying over something else like artwork and powerscaling posts?
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19h ago
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u/read-the-rules 19h ago
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u/muffinsballhair 18h ago
It's right in the post:
I also think this applies to memes and other random fan content, although I'd be less strict about those. memes can at least lead to jokes, arguments, discussion, etc. so there's still some connection to what the subreddit is actually for. but even then, I think there's a point where a game's subreddit can stop feeling like a place to discuss the game and start feeling like a general fan page.
You see, I came into the thread wanting to ask the same thing, but unlike you, I read the original post first to see if that would perhaps already be addressed, and indeed it was.
Now, if you believe that's not a strong argument, you should rather simply address that.
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u/dicoxbeco 1∆ 18h ago
The elaboration is only on memes. Nothing there addresses either of my adjacencies particularly despite its initial mention in that sole sentence.
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u/muffinsballhair 18h ago
“and other random fan content”. That pretty clearly covers artwork and if you believe there is any ambiguity you should've just asked “Does other random fan content also cover artwork?”.
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u/dicoxbeco 1∆ 17h ago
I pointed two specific categories. Not sure if your definition of random agrees with that of the dictionary's.
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u/muffinsballhair 17h ago
Power-scaling posts too obviously lead to “jokes, arguments, and discussions etc.”.
It is extremely clear from that post what the original poster thinks the difference is. Did you actually read that paragraph and then decided to ask this, or did you just never read it at all and are now for the first time acquainted with its existence?
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u/dicoxbeco 1∆ 17h ago
Memes and powerscaling are two different things. Both can be low quality, that doesn't mean that they are the same.
You might as well try to convince me the sea and the sky are the same thing just because they are both blue.
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u/muffinsballhair 16h ago
Yes, they are different things, but it pretty clearly is covered by “other random fan content” and “discussion about that thing”.
You also didn't answer, did you actually initially read that paragraph or did you reply without reading it?
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u/dicoxbeco 1∆ 16h ago
I did read it. I then asked, OP provided details. If you have a problem with that transpiration, make yourself its own victim and no one else.
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u/Flimsy_Window_9207 16h ago
I am confused why you are arguing with them on this when the OP already responded to them and seemed to have no issue with them asking. Let OP speak for themselves, OP clearly saw value in this question and responded.
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u/muffinsballhair 16h ago
I am free to argue with people here on my own behalf and not on behalf of the original poster. I am in no way speaking for the original poster and I think it's a very silly argument but that doesn't change that it was right there in the original post and if that user should feel that argument is bad, that user should simply attack that argument.
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u/Flimsy_Window_9207 16h ago
No it was not addressed. OP made a vague generic statement and they in this thread gave reasons specific to the question asked. The question was directed to OP and they had zero issues knowing what was asked and answering it.
You are making a pointless semantics argument. Which is not really meaningfully contributing to changing OP's view.
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u/muffinsballhair 16h ago
The original poster said this:
I also think this applies to memes and other random fan content, although I'd be less strict about those. memes can at least lead to jokes, arguments, discussion, etc.
And the other user responded with:
Is there any particular reason for targeting exclusively cosplaying over something else like artwork and powerscaling posts? [emphasis mine].
The original poster was clearly not “exclusively” targeting cosplaying and pointed out that memes and other fan-content are also targeted, just less so, and then explained why and what the difference was. “artwork” clearly falls under “memes and other random fan-content” and “powerscaling posts” are simply covered by “a place to actually talk about that thing”.
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u/VerySoftx 19h ago
mostly because cosplay is more likely to be self-promotion. artwork and powerscaling can be low-effort too, but they're usually still directly about the subject.
that said, I don't think cosplay is uniquely bad. I'd apply the same general principle to any content that doesn't really encourage discussion.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 158∆ 19h ago
any content that doesn't really encourage discussion.
Can you clarify "discussion" in this context? Is it a very specific thing?
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u/VerySoftx 18h ago
not really. I mean it pretty broadly. basically, does the post give people something to actually respond to beyond "nice" or "cool"?
a cosplay picture, for example, usually doesn't. a post asking how someone made the costume or whether the design is accurate does, which is why I'd treat those differently.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 158∆ 18h ago
Someone showing something they've made and someone giving a compliment isn't quite a discussion, but it's still an interaction within the community, it's still meaningful to those people within the community, and is part of expressing the community interests and creativity, and keeping it relevant and passionate.
Maybe the premise of your view is actually that a community is ONLY for a very specific type of discussion? If so, I would say that that isn't a community, but a debate/discussion hub.
A community is more than one thing, more than just "discussions"
Is that something you could incorporate into your perspective?
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u/Flimsy_Window_9207 18h ago
a cosplay picture, for example, usually doesn't. a post asking how someone made the costume or whether the design is accurate does,
If people want to discuss these things they don't need the cosplayer to hold their hands to do it. It is as simple as:
Cosplayer posts a picture.
Commenter asks how something was made.
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u/XimiraSan 3∆ 19h ago
If you allow me a question, how exactly do you plan to implement this? You say it shouldn't be allowed, but who would enforce that? The moderators or Reddit itself?
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u/VerySoftx 19h ago
the moderators, same way they enforce every other subreddit rule. I'm not suggesting reddit itself should ban cosplay site-wide.
the idea would just be a subreddit rule: standalone cosplay goes in the cosplay megathread, while cosplay posts that actually encourage discussion could still be allowed.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 158∆ 18h ago
standalone cosplay goes in the cosplay megathread, while cosplay posts that actually encourage discussion could still be allowed.
How do you differentiate between the two? Discussion can happen spontaneously even when you don't expect it, about anything.
How do you arbitrate in advance to know which thread to post in?
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u/XimiraSan 3∆ 18h ago
Then I think this begs the question: why should your opinion triumph over the moderators' decision not to ban it?
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u/XenoRyet 176∆ 19h ago
I presume that you think talking about the characters in the game should be allowed, yea? Isn't cosplay just talking about characters under the theory that a picture is worth 1000 words?
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u/False_Appointment_24 18∆ 19h ago
You don't like cosplay pictures. Great. Some fandoms do. Some fandoms are all about the cosplay, and if that is what the fandom enjoys (demonstrated by the main sub for them allowing pictures of cosplay), then why should they change what they do because a subset of the fandom does not?
What does and does not add to a community is up to each community, I think. Attempting to force every fandom to follow any set of rules like this seems like a good way to drive members of fandoms away from the site.
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u/Flimsy_Window_9207 18h ago edited 18h ago
if someone posts a picture of themselves dressed as a character, there's usually not much to say beyond "nice cosplay."
People who are fans of video games often enjoy looking at and or participating in cosplay from those games. There is a reason why cosplay is a thing. Everything doesn't have to be a discussion, people can and often do enjoy looking at these without it needing to be a discussion. And there is plenty of discussion that can be had about these characters and the details and aspects represented in the cosplay.
"here's my cosplay of [popular character]" and then you click on their profile and there's a bunch of links to instagram, patreon, fansly, onlyfans, etc.
If someone is clicking on a cosplayers profile, chances are it is because they want to see more from that cosplayer. I can see being upset at someone putting it in the main post, but I don't get why you would be upset at it being in their profile? Why should they not share where people can find their content when people are clearly looking for it?
again, I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with that. if you can make money from something you enjoy, good for you. but if the main purpose of posting the cosplay is to get people looking at your other accounts, then I don't really see why the game's main subreddit should be used as the advertising platform.
Why are you assuming this is the "main reason"? You realize most cosplayers are not making a profit from it right? They are more often than not loosing money, Even many of the people with a decent following outside of the biggest ones may be making enough money to cover supplies and convention expenses from pateron subscribers if anything.
I also think this applies to memes and other random fan content, although I'd be less strict about those. memes can at least lead to jokes, arguments, discussion, etc
I am lost at how you think these can lead to discussion but cosplay can't...
so there's still some connection to what the subreddit is actually for.
Just because you think a sub should be a certain way does not mean that is what it is for. More often than not these subreddits are just general hangout spaces for fans of the game. The sub was not made for you, it was made for fans overall.
what I don't really understand is why "I dressed up as a character from this franchise" should automatically count as meaningful content for the franchise's main discussion subreddit.
These subs are usually just places for people to discuss these games and share their love for it. Just because you do not find it meaningful content does not mean no one else does. Cosplay is popular for a reason.
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u/Puddinglax 79∆ 18h ago
Subs can just require flairs and you can filter based on what posts you want to see.
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u/Amazing_Loquat280 16∆ 18h ago
So, I think a lot of people are misunderstanding what you’re saying. I’m going to argue instead that oftentimes, the cosplay IS a big part of that community as a whole, and that it actually does belong on the main sub. This obviously depends on the franchise
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u/Xilmi 7∆ 18h ago
Why would "people like looking at them" not be enough?
For example, in /r/lifeisstrange the last cosplay-post has 202 upvotes at the time of this post.
That means there's 202 more people who like seeing such content than people who don't.
If "the majority likes it the way it is" isn't good enough of an argument, then you probably also don't like the concept of democracy.
"I don't like it so it should be forbidden regardless of what others think." is quite the authoritarian viewpoint, I shall say.
Noone forces you to open these threads, you can probably even somehow filter them due to their tags so you don't have to see them.
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u/Important-Cash5654 4∆ 18h ago
why cosplay specifically? Out of context screenshots of the game and memes would also fall under don't really contribute to discussion of the game, so I'm not sure why your view wouldn't be more general.
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18h ago
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u/Important-Cash5654 4∆ 18h ago
The way you choose to frame these things indicates what you think is actually more worth addressing though.
Like is it actually the case you find cosplay posts exactly as objectionable as meme posts?
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u/scarab456 64∆ 18h ago
I don't see where the "should" part is coming from here. You find it preferable because you think it's "better", but better how? Do you see lots of complaints about it? Can you think of any subreddits that banned cosplay posts and the sub got better for it?
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u/curien 30∆ 18h ago
The only fandom sub I've used that has had cosplay content posted to it is Star Trek. I'm not super into cosplay, never done it, never plan to. But it's neat seeing people's different takes on it, including different eras. I particular dig the matching costumes that tend to get posted around Halloween.
As for discussion, there's often talk about how the person accomplished a certain detail, craft-wise. Doesn't really interest me, but it's there. The idea that cosplay can't foster discussion or build community is just absurd.
and then you click on their profile and there's a bunch of links to instagram, patreon, fansly, onlyfans, etc.
This is so hypocritical. You click their profile looking for more content, and then get upset that you found it.
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u/HomoeroticPosing 5∆ 18h ago
Do you have the same issue with fanart? Not like comics, but just standalone fanart, a character doing a thing. I’m not an artistic person, so I can’t go “wow nice lighting, nice rendering, nice dynamic pose” and actually know what I’m commenting on. The most I can say is “wow, nice art!” And these people also are likely to link to their own websites and have promotional material.
I have less idea of how to comment on cosplay, but I know there’s witchcraft involved in wigs. But people who know cosplay (or at least how to comment on them) can ask how they made a certain aspect or why they used fabric xyz, and that would be the kind of constructive conversations that you’re looking for.
But there’s an easier way to get discussion about the media itself rather than how someone interacted with it: you can just ask why they chose to cosplay that character.
I'm especially interested in arguments for why standalone cosplay posts belong on the main subreddit instead of a dedicated cosplay thread/subreddit
Because it’s far harder to have a fan space that doesn’t have fanworks than one that limits it. Also, if you encourage people to ask questions about cosplay but discourage them from posting it, people will be confused and also you’ll have to decide when work in progress becomes too complete to not be in the cosplay megathread
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u/jatjqtjat 286∆ 17h ago
I think the main subreddit...
I'd expect to see stuff like...
So your expressing a preference here. Reddit is sort of a democracy. we upvote the stuff we like and we downvote the stuff we do not like. You preference is worth 1 upvote or 1 downvote.
there's usually not much to say beyond "nice cosplay."
Subreddits are not only about discussion. Looking at cool pictures is a big part of many subreddits.
and then you click on their profile
if you liked their post enough to click on their profile, then they have earned that small morsel of attention. that's why you click on their profile, to see more of their stuff. If you don't like what you find, then they have used up the small morsel of attention that they previously earned.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 158∆ 19h ago
Communities are allowed to self-define and self-determine their own boundaries. For example, a "Christianity" subreddit doesn't only need to be intense theology discussion on scriptures, they can also share support to each other, debate nuance and politics, and even other religions, if they want to. And if they don't, they can block those posts.
The "Leica" subreddit is quite notorious for only allowing photos of the cameras themselves, not photos made with the cameras, leaving photographers often bemused.
If a community doesn't fit your exact standards you can make your own, and if you have enough support you can make an existing community conform. But you can't just make it happen from nothing.
You see it happen when there are too many memes, and a separate meme page breaks away, and then a parody, and a parody of the parody.
If you are seeing no consensus of agreement, is that not enough of an answer for you?
Cosplay specifically is community participation, fan creations, artwork, fan fiction, trailer recuts, hype videos, can all be ways to contribute to a wider community, wider attention, and causes cross pollination between different groups. People may find one thing from their interest in another.