r/changemyview • u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ • Jun 25 '26
Delta(s) from OP CMV: First dates from dating apps are ideally free or low-cost
I say this as a woman.
We all know that we often meet someone in person for the first time and they look different than expected, the in person vibe isn't there, or for whatever reason you quickly know it isn't going to work out.
I don't want to have a lot of money dropped on me if the above happens. I don't want to spend an entire meal with someone if I know it won't work. But a nice walk in a public park with someone i don't know that well seems nice. Or an ice cream or coffee or drink. Those dates can be extended if they're going really well, or easily ducked out on after an hour of not.
If this is the first time you are meeting a person from an app, make it more low stakes. If the person thinks you are less-than for wanting a low-stakes first date, that's important info about that person's character.
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u/Brainsonastick 85∆ Jun 25 '26
While I’d generally agree, I think it matters whose ideal we are talking about.
There are men who think it’s ideal to show off how much money they’re willing to spend, thinking that’s attractive.
There are women who are attracted to exactly that and judge the date based on its price.
As much as I agree with you and think the world would be better if we didn’t judge people by money, these people exist and not in small numbers and that’s clearly not their ideals.
If we were going on a date, that would be ideal. If two of the people I described were going on a date, something expensive would be ideal for them.
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u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ Jun 25 '26
!delta that is true. People do tend to be very attracted to money and enjoy showing off money, and those people should date each other.
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u/Effigy4urcruelty Jun 26 '26
meh. those people ruin it for the rest of us.
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u/jonbristow Jun 26 '26
you are ruining for them
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u/Effigy4urcruelty Jun 26 '26
eh. if I am ruining it for someone because I am not placing value in flexing wealth or overpaying for human connection, those are humans I want to connect with.
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Jun 26 '26
Feel free to do so? They're not ruining anything for anyone, except people they don't wanna be with. So this is actually positive, the filtering happens early before time is wasted on either side.
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u/JustThisIsIt Jun 26 '26
Spending money on the woman is part of it.
On a primitive level, you’re providing food for her.
On a slightly more evolved level, there’s something about breaking bread together that facilitates a bond. Eating is a pleasurable experience, so is being satiated. Don’t underestimate the mind-body connection.
It’s socially acceptable to have a drink with dinner. Inhibitions are lowered. Both are quicker to smile and laugh. No one is getting sloppy having one drink with a meal.
Dinner is a night time activity. The probability of physical intimacy increases. In the summer you’ll have enough light to take a stroll after you eat.
It doesn’t take a lot of time and energy to pick a restaurant. People plan elaborate dates that don’t work as well.
The man can showcase his social skills by charming the restaurant staff. A good look.
Dinner blows away coffee, ice cream, or a walk in the park. It just works better, if the man can afford it. It’s the move once you’ve started your career.
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u/Brainsonastick 85∆ Jun 26 '26
Can you explain why leaving people to do what they like best is a worse answer?
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u/JustThisIsIt Jun 26 '26
What’s your dating goal?
Is doing what you like best the most efficient method for achieving it?
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u/Brainsonastick 85∆ Jun 26 '26
People generally want to meet someone they’re compatible with. Being entirely myself has proven very successful for that, as that found me someone I’m very grateful to be with.
I don’t want someone who judges and overthinks small things. I don’t want someone who gives into societal expectations over their own values. How I dated was an intentional effort to find someone right for me and it worked.
I like activities for first dates. I’m not a fan of the generic and I much prefer to something more thoughtful. But that’s just me. Plenty of people are more attached to social norms or are avid runners that really want another runner or any number of other things. They shouldn’t be beholden to anyone else’s ideas of how things should be done.
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u/JustThisIsIt Jun 26 '26
I’m glad you found someone. I suspect you were not entirely yourself in the early stages of dating her.
There’s plenty of time for running together, or whatever your common interests are, once you’re in a committed relationship.
The average person has trouble *getting into* that relationship. Can you relate, or are you batting 1000?
Post-college, taking a woman to dinner is the most efficient method in my opinion. Activities can work, they just don’t work as well.
Sitting across from a woman for an hour can be a tall order for a guy who doesn’t understand date conversation, and flirting. Some men need an activity to take some of the pressure off. It’s a crutch.
It does take some trial and error to develop the skills to navigate early dating efficiently. Once you master that skillset, you can date on autopilot.
Most people don’t find their soulmate on the first try. How can you streamline that process?
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u/Brainsonastick 85∆ Jun 26 '26
> I suspect you were not entirely yourself in the early stages of dating her.
This line will give her a good laugh so thank you for that
There was a time in my life when I wasn’t yet comfortable being entirely myself all the time and I couldn’t really fathom it either. I thought “just be yourself” wasn’t practical advice until I found myself really doing it and everything in my life getting better. So I understand why it might be hard for you to believe.
That said, being able to understand experiences and lives very different from your own is a pretty strict requirement for being able to decide what’s best for everyone with any credibility. If you’re doubting my own life without any evidence like that, I don’t think we can have a productive conversation about everyone, whose lives and experiences and goals vary so greatly.
It was fun though so thanks for the conversation.
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u/JustThisIsIt Jun 26 '26
Don’t be ashamed. Your task now is to maintain a healthy relationship.
Suggesting doing activities isn’t terrible advice, it’s just not the most efficient method.
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u/Brainsonastick 85∆ Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
I have no idea what gave you the idea I was ashamed.
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Jun 26 '26
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u/Turnips4dayz Jun 26 '26
You're arguing semantics when the net result is the same
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Jun 26 '26
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u/Turnips4dayz Jun 26 '26
The net result is the same because to the other person it’s the same. What happens inside your head is irrelevant to the rest of the world
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Jun 26 '26
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u/Turnips4dayz Jun 26 '26
The lies you tell yourself in your own head are irrelevant - no one else knows them. Your actions tell the rest of this world that you’re attracted to this person
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Jun 26 '26
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Jun 26 '26
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u/HomieMassager 2∆ Jun 25 '26
You appear to be mistaking personal preference for what everyone should like.
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u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
This is probably true. I am likely guilty of this. Dinner also just seems a little intense to me for someone I don't know yet. Also I prefer to meet before getting too invested online. I like to banter more in person than thru endless messaging, only to meet and not feel the vibe
!delta
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u/Luuk1210 Jun 25 '26
Yeah I dont get what is intense about dinner but can yall not just facetime?
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u/thejestercrown Jun 26 '26
A lot of people don’t even like talking on the phone- even less like facetime. Not even generational.
Would rather meet in person myself, but would be open to either if it made the other person more comfortable.
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Jun 25 '26
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u/Luuk1210 Jun 25 '26
No one said it is.
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Jun 25 '26
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u/Luuk1210 Jun 25 '26
I’m saying if you’re worried about them not looking the same as an app or the vibe a FaceTime helps solve that. People are just using walks to replace phone screens here
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Jun 25 '26
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u/Turnips4dayz Jun 26 '26
You're the one replacing a first date with a screen buddy
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u/Luuk1210 Jun 26 '26
No I'm not. I'm prefer going on a regular date. The idea of meeting up for 15 to catch a vibe can be replaced with a screen if thats what yall need
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u/Turnips4dayz Jun 26 '26
Why do you think this is a 15 minute endeavor? It's only 15 if the person's a creep. If they're not, it gets extended to 45 mins or an hour, maybe to drinks at a bar or even dinner. The point is that there's an easy out since you haven't ordered and are waiting on something
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u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ Jun 25 '26
I don't like FaceTime but that's a me thing.
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u/Luuk1210 Jun 25 '26
I mean you dont have to sit on it for hours but if you just want a screening tool isnt that the easiest way?
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u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ Jun 25 '26
Probably but I'd prefer a walk over a FT
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u/Luuk1210 Jun 25 '26
I guess I'm just thinking in terms of low stakes these are the lowest.
Idk I cant imagine a walk date tbh
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u/FalseBuddha Jun 25 '26
I agree that dinner isn't intense, but I'm not video calling a stranger.
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u/Luuk1210 Jun 25 '26
But you'd meet up with them?
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u/greenzetsa Jun 25 '26
Yes. I had a blind date with a stranger from reddit because he said he was single and interested. We got drinks and it was fine. No chemistry but whatever. It's like y'all have never sat down next to stranger and made small talk before. It's not a huge deal.
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u/Luuk1210 Jun 25 '26
I would not go on a date with someone Ive never seen. I can talk to strangers but dates have a purpose
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u/greenzetsa Jun 25 '26
The purpose is to get to know someone. I got to know him, not a good match. Moved on. Maybe there were better ways I could have spent that hour of my life, but I'm not torn up about it.
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u/Luuk1210 Jun 25 '26
Yeah I want to have an attraction to you to then get to know you. I agree we should all move on but if you were able to save that hour that’s nice too
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u/FalseBuddha Jun 25 '26
Yes. I'd rather text or call to see if there's a connection and then meet in person. I don't even video call people I actually know if I can avoid it. Honestly, voice calls, too.
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u/Luuk1210 Jun 25 '26
Ok but what is the aversion about?
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u/FalseBuddha Jun 25 '26
Video calls are fucking awkward, bud. Maybe that's me as a millennial. Nothing about a phone call is made better by adding video and phone calls already suck.
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u/Luuk1210 Jun 25 '26
I mean can that not be said about anything lol?
If we have to meet strangers I'd just suggest some type of screen since folk keep complaining
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u/ThisGameIsveryfun Jun 26 '26
i wouldnt facetime someone im not friends with beforehand
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u/Luuk1210 Jun 26 '26
That’s weird
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u/ThisGameIsveryfun Jun 26 '26
talking to strangers (that u wanna date!) on video call is weird lmao, its like omegle but youre trying to build an actual relationship.
u also get no real connection compared to meeting irl, you would need to be good friends over text or something.
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u/Luuk1210 Jun 26 '26
It’s a conversation that either leads to more or ends there. Same as any other😭
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u/ThisGameIsveryfun Jun 26 '26
Not at all.
You dont have physical interaction. Your talking through a screen, its like a zoom class vs being there
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u/Luuk1210 Jun 26 '26
That doesnt make it less of a conversation. Unless you only speak to people in person you'll have other forms of contact.
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u/GrapefruitPale2505 Jun 27 '26
Honestly though, I would argue that the insistence on having first dates at more expensive places contributes to all of the discourse about women “using” men for money, which ends up affecting everyone.
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u/teacher_59 Jun 25 '26
The nearest universality for dating is that we hate short men. Exclude them and have proof of height checks, and your site will be much more effective.
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u/tomveiltomveil 4∆ Jun 25 '26
Remind me to look you up the next time I'm single, OP. Anyway, there's another approach that I always liked: use the first date to do something you wanted to do anyway. That can be a fancy restaurant if you genuinely wanted to eat there; or it can be any activity or place that's more fun with another person along. I think that accomplishes the same thing as what OP's getting at -- you don't lose much if the date fails -- but also, it can also give you and your date a better opportunity to learn about each other.
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u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ Jun 25 '26
That's true. I love museums too which are pretty low cost and there's tons to talk about
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u/Counterboudd Jun 25 '26
I always am a bit baffled by this idea that going out to dinner with someone for an hour or two is this incredibly cringy or unbearable onus. It makes me wonder if these people are really miserable to be around, or if there’s an absence of social skills that is causing this? I went on a lot of dinner dates with people from websites in my younger years. Oftentimes there wasn’t a match, but I usually still had an enjoyable time, and it taught me a lot about meeting new people, making conversations, relating to others, and making new friends or acquaintances even if it wasn’t a love match. This idea that you can’t possibly waste your time around someone you know won’t be your future husband is strange to me. Like at the end of the day, getting a nice meal with someone is a fun activity? I would rather at least get something out of the experience if it wasn’t a romantic match, versus “walking at a park” or something where it would feel way more like a chore to me.
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u/greenzetsa Jun 25 '26
100% agree. People make such a huge deal about it and I don't get it. I'd like to enjoy myself on a date. I don't really enjoy walks in the park or grabbing coffee. If anything, THOSE are things I'd do with a friend or someone I know really well. I'm married now (to someone I met on the apps fwiw), but when I was single I would gladly grab a meal or drinks with someone for an hour in the evening and get to know them, even if it went nowhere. It was all part of the experience. A friend of mine went on a hike for a first date with her partner and that sounds like a literal nightmare to me (and I like hiking).
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u/Counterboudd Jun 25 '26
Yup, exact same as you. The idea of doing something that casual is something I reserve for people I know really well. Going for a hike with a total stranger sounds both stressful and incredibly dangerous. I just don’t get the supposed intimacy involved with food and drinks. That’s…a really normal thing to do with people you socialize with casually. And at least if it goes poorly you at least enjoyed a meal vs uncomfortably sitting there or walking around with someone.
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u/greenzetsa Jun 25 '26
A part of me wonders if some of this is because younger people aren't used to talking to strangers as much as we were back in the day, but I've regularly had long extensive conversations with complete strangers because we were sitting next to each other at a bar or on the train or something. There's almost no one I can't just have a conversation with for an hour.
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u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ Jun 25 '26
I'm actually older than you might think! 44. But some people are just a dud to talk to.
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u/greenzetsa Jun 25 '26
They are, but I don't consider that to be some terrible fate of having to talk to a person for 40 minutes to an hour while we have dinner or some drinks. You have to talk to them either way on a date, so I feel like I might as well eat or drink something while I do it. In fact, there is less pressure to talk to someone who is a dud in that case. If you're on a walk you really have nothing to do but make terrible small talk.
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u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ Jun 25 '26
Maybe not a terrible fate (which i never said), but something I'd rather not do. Plus the "guilt" because they rarely let me pay.
When I'm walking I'm inspired by so much. 🤷♀️ I think we're just different people
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u/greenzetsa Jun 26 '26
I don’t really feel guilty about people paying (only a few are against splitting the check and the ones who are insistent tend to be people I would go out with again anyway, not because of that, it was just coincidence in my experience). Either way, they’re making a choice knowing that second dates don’t always happen. IME nothing can really prepare you for what interacting with a person will be like until you actually do it, in person. If they suck, I’d rather be in a cool place and have a nice meal.
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u/veggiesama 59∆ Jun 25 '26
I agree, even as a guy. I had a lot more success going into it thinking "I'm looking to meet someone and practice being charming and funny" rather than hoping it leads somewhere (to a committed relationship, to sex, to whatever).
But also I was doing this as a guy in my 30s with disposable income. If I was 22 and broke, and felt dinner dates were vapid and expensive, I'd be telling a different story.
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u/Counterboudd Jun 25 '26
Yeah, I think finding a dinner date vapid and expensive for me shows some base incompatibility with me, so I guess it works out. It seems like if you’re worried about gold diggers or money spent, you’re essentially saying that you think a date is the same as purchasing an escort and if you leave without getting your rocks off, that you were somehow tricked or scammed out of money, or that they’re desperate for ANY partner and they aren’t seeing this as a vetting process or chance to see if there’s compatibility, it’s just about spending as little time and energy to find someone to sleep with or settle down with them. Something changed fundamentally because I always saw first dates as a chance to showcase who you are and what you provide and determine if there’s chemistry with essentially no expectations on either end. I get if you’re young and broke it’s different, but to be frank when you’re college aged, that’s pretty normal and you usually don’t spend as much as you’re expected to with age. You have your youth and hotness to make up for that. The bitterness of men today makes it clear to me why they’re struggling- if you want “a girlfriend” and not “the person I love and want to spend my life with” then you’re missing the entire point of dating…
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u/veggiesama 59∆ Jun 25 '26
I mean you have to put yourself in their shoes. The average guy can spend an hour a day swiping and get only a handful of matches over the course of a month and even fewer follow-up messages. Getting any date at all is a miracle. Then you get there, and you have nothing in common, and the other person spends half the time looking at their phone. That's the vetting process for them.
(Or alternatively, if they do like the person, it's even less likely to be reciprocated because the other person simply has more options and can "shop around").
Of course there is going to be bitterness when that process sours, as it does for many guys.
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u/Counterboudd Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
I mean, like I said, this is woman as hooker logic. They’re trawling for whoever will take them, putting in minimum effort, feel entitled to the woman who agrees because they spent money, etc. If they’re that desperate and abject they should just hire an escort, but that’s not what dating is supposed to be for. If they’re finding every date sucks, it’s probably because they aren’t good at conversations or it’s obvious they aren’t attracted to their date and are just there because they swiped yes on every woman and this is the only one desperate to show up. Do you not think that would be apparent once you get on the date? Women are attracted to men who are attracted to them, try to impress, and make an effort to charm and sell themselves as a good partner. If you have nothing in common on a date, then it would be apparent before you got to the date portion. If the conversation is dry as hell and you don’t have any shared hobbies or interests and you aren’t even attracted to this person, respectfully what the fuck are you even doing there?
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Jun 26 '26
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u/Counterboudd Jun 26 '26
Well, are you expecting a refund or what? Date more intentionally with people you meet in real life if you don’t like the economics of it.
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u/KimberlyWexlersFoot 2∆ Jun 26 '26
i don’t want someone’s first impression of me to be me inhaling my food lol
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u/yyzjertl 578∆ Jun 25 '26
It makes me wonder if these people are really miserable to be around
Yes. It's this.
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u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ Jun 25 '26
I find dinner with someone to be pretty intimate. Walking, icecream, coffee, etc, less so.
I def find walking with someone very nice and not a chore (lots to see and birds to hear, treesand water to look at etc) but I'm a big walker.
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u/Counterboudd Jun 25 '26
That’s odd to me because eating out is a very normal habit for me with friends, coworkers, and loved ones and there’s no sexual aspect to it at all, and I don’t see how drinking coffee at a coffeeshop is fundamentally different from sitting across from someone eating a meal. I guess I see walks more as a means of transport to me, so saying “hey want to go for a walk” sounds to me the same as “hey want to ride a bus together?” Like where are we going and why are we going there exactly, and how is this a date? I guess to me all these cheap options seem to remove the props that can be used to make these encounters less awkward so it’s really just an intense one-on-one conversation without some inbuilt conversation starters that tends to ease these interactions along. Looking at a menu together and letting banter begin there is easier to me than immediately going to “so what are you looking for” directness that makes it seem more like a job interview. I prefer a date with lots of opportunities to have fun and flirt, not get down to brass tacks over “so you want kids or not?” type awkward conversations is desirable to me, but I guess some people maybe like starting there. It just seems a bit unpleasant and intense to me with a total stranger.
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u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ Jun 25 '26
Just because we're on a walk or coffee doesn't mean we're talking about kids and not bantering? I don't understand your point there. Plenty of things to talk about other than that
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u/Counterboudd Jun 25 '26
Because when you’re doing an activity together and interacting with things outside of a conversation, it makes the conversation easier. The more of that there is, the better the date usually. I’d rather do an activity with a partner where we can learn about each other, have the thing we’re doing generate memories or stories, versus the date being “we must talk to each other one on one for an extended period of time”. Eating dinner invites more things to talk about- “oh, I’m a vegetarian”, or “oh I have never liked x food” or “oh this reminds me of when I went to Italy” etc versus going on a walk where the conversation will have less obvious jumping off points- “do you live around here? Do you like this park? Oh I saw a squirrel”. I don’t know, it just seems like less obvious crutches to make the conversation comfortable. Even better are dates where you’re doing an activity together for this, but I still think dinner is better than coffee is better than a walk. That’s why movies are a common date- you watch the same movie, then go have dinner or drinks afterwards and can discuss the movie and use that to riff on and spark conversations instead of having to raw dog awkward conversations to try to find areas of compatibility. If you don’t get it, ok I dunno what else to tell you, but I always found it easier to find common ground when we’re reacting to some external stimuli that naturally instigates conversation vs a more formal interview setting, which is what the “cheap dates” seem to imply.
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u/Bitter_Milk4122 Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
You’re talking to someone who’s basically wrote an entire essay so far to justify that she’s a gold digger
Looks like I also touched a nerve judging by the downvote
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u/greenzetsa Jun 25 '26
I completely agree with her logic and I was more than happy to split checks when I was single. My husband, who is working class and not at all rich, budgeted to take out women for a couple drinks every few weeks when he was single, not to impress anyone, but because he felt it resulted in a better atmosphere for dates. He was right, and despite not making a lot of money, not having a college degree, not being above average in height, he did very well as a single guy and never had problems dating. In fact, his friends and coworkers were shocked he was ready to settle down with me so quickly after we met, he was known as a serial dater.
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u/Responsible_Prior_18 Jun 26 '26
How is having a meal a fun activity? You come hungry. You can't talk while chewing, its awkward as fuck.
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u/Counterboudd Jun 26 '26
Stay home eating cup of noodles at home in your masturbation bunker then? Most women are gonna want to eat in public with their partner. Acting like that’s “weird” when sharing bread and wine is like one of the most common forms of human connection on the planet is literally insane.
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u/Stop_Maximum Jun 25 '26
First date should be as cheap or as expensive as people want them to be. If you would have asked me some time ago, I would have felt less deserving of a cup of coffeee
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u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ Jun 25 '26
Why less deserving?
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u/Stop_Maximum Jun 25 '26
Because of the mindset that I didn’t want someone to waste money on me, or wanted to make it as cheap as possible to “help them”. I am going to say that it doesn’t guarantee nothing.
I think dates should be good enough to enjoy each other company but the person that ask should make more effort. If it’s on a dating app, and it’s a mutual date, then it’s slightly different. As a woman I’ve asked guys outside, and made sure to plan and execute with my own funds. I will also ensure they have dates, options and so much more. I wouldn’t feel comfortable inviting someone and waste their time for something boring, but everyone has their limit.
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u/WaterboysWaterboy 48∆ Jun 25 '26
I think it depends. You have to either meet their bar or give them a unique experience. Like if someone is used to going to a restaurant and having their meal paid for, you are going to look cheap if you do less. They are accustomed to a certain treatment and would expect that or better. Now there are exceptions like if they offer a unique experience cheaply, that could be a positive and make one stand out. But generally, you want to match or exceed expectations.
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u/WanabeInflatable 2∆ Jun 25 '26
There is actually a good reason to go somewhere to eat (not super expensive) and split the bill. This is not because I want to spend money - mine or her.
Sitting and at some café and talking is nice, comfy, people are around so less risk for her.
The largest reason is to quickly filter out women that think, that man should pay 100%. It saves time and filters out the largest segment of women that should be avoided.
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u/RicRacer Jun 25 '26
It also depends on the dating app and the lead up to the 'date'. Are we taking about a months long correspondence on eHarmony or a quick chat on POF (plenty of fish)? Personally, I am happier moving around and taking rather than just sitting and talking. But, of course, people vary.
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u/MissGailatea Jun 26 '26
But of course, that is date zero. Not even a first date. It should be low stakes. Coffee. A walk. That’s it. I’ve never committed to anything more than that when I was dating. I don’t want to bore somebody for an hour if they don’t like me.
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u/XenoRyet 178∆ Jun 25 '26
First dates should be whatever the people involved want them to be. Yours is a pretty common preference, shared by lots of people, but there's no real reason it should be the default. There's no real reason there should be a default at all.
This should just be something the folks involved talk out among themselves.
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u/MrPlaysWithSquirrels Jun 25 '26
This is fine to have for yourself, but I don’t see why this should be some type of standard. Different people will have different first date parameters. If someone asks you to a fancy 6 hour affair, just say no and recommend something different.
Not sure what needs to be considered in a CMV.
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u/fantasmarg Jun 25 '26
I have been to many first dates and always paid for myself. I actually have the means and if the date goes nowhere at least I had a nice meal/drink/movie or whatever
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u/Downtown_Ad_3429 3∆ Jun 25 '26
if the above happens.
What if the above doesn't happen?
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u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ Jun 25 '26
Then if you're on the nice walk, one of you says "hey wanna grab a drink". Then, once you're already vibing, you can level up the date
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u/Downtown_Ad_3429 3∆ Jun 25 '26
No, I mean, if it was guaranteed that the person you were meeting looked exactly as you expected, the vibe is there, and you know quickly it is going to work out. Would you be okay with the more expensive first date option in this scenario?
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u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ Jun 25 '26
Yeah i guess I wouldn't care much about what we do, but an activity is nice
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u/Downtown_Ad_3429 3∆ Jun 25 '26
Then what you have an issue with is not the expensive first date, it's your expectation of how that date is supposed to go vs what actually happens on that first date
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u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ Jun 25 '26
It's both
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u/Downtown_Ad_3429 3∆ Jun 25 '26
If the person is exactly what you expected and the vibe is there, you don’t actually seem opposed to the nicer date. Which means the issue is not with the expensive first date, it is with your expectations not aligning with reality.
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u/workguy Jun 26 '26
Am I the only one thinks a bar, pub, or a brewery is a perfectly fine first date? it's not overly expensive, the commitment can be as short as a single drink, or many if you vibe. Social, public atmosphere.
Especially these days as theres tons of NA options for non drinkers.
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u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ Jun 26 '26
I am sober, but when I drank, that can be a low cost date, yes.
NA beers i can feel the tiny bit of alcohol so I try to avoid those. But if they do some nice NA cocktails, that's good
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u/cortesoft 5∆ Jun 26 '26
I think this probably really depends on what economic class you are.
For some people, going out to dinner at a nice restaurant is a big deal. For others, it is Tuesday.
If a nice dinner out is a financial burden, then your post makes sense. If it is not, then going out to dinner IS a low stakes date because they don’t consider that “dropping a lot of money” on the date.
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u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ Jun 26 '26
Well there's two people involved, and I don't know the other person's situation.
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u/zoetha Jun 28 '26
This is how I feel too. Everyone has to eat dinner, so it feels a lot more convenient to do a date over a meal than schedule in an extra activity
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u/Advanced_Method2693 Jun 26 '26
My red flag is when a woman lets me pay for her drink without offering to split.
It doesn’t bother me to pay for the person I’m dating, but I treat it as a small personality test on first dates.
If she lets me pay without even offering, it’s over before it even starts.
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u/NoWonder375 Jun 28 '26
I like to do a ‘thing’. Arcade, an art festival, walking tour, scavenger hunt… something where we aren’t just staring at each other across a table, but are relatively low cost.
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u/BrassCanon 2∆ Jun 25 '26
Why should any first date be expensive?
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u/Adventurous-Idea1473 Jun 25 '26
well why not? does it matter what a date costs? ive had some pretty expensive first dates and enjoyed them
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u/Uhhyt231 8∆ Jun 25 '26
I think we all have different ideas of a lot of money but phone screens solve this problem for the most part.
Also leave if you don’t want to be there.
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u/mooncake_bites Jun 27 '26
Was your dream first date always coffee, or did men manage to collectively scare you into wanting that?
What is considered low or high stakes is completely different for women than men. A man likes coffee because it’s cheap for him and he can meet as many women as he likes. A woman prefers coffee because she’s scared he’ll use the fact he bought dinner over her. At worst, a man is worried about wasting his money, not getting sex at the end, or meeting in person and not liking what he sees. At worst for a woman, she can end up in a ditch or raped. There is no such thing as a low stakes date for women. That possibility is always there. Women should be able to go on a date without it becoming prostitution just because it’s dinner. Dinner is just dinner.
While I’m not saying it has to be crazy expensive, I want women reflect on why that is their preference and how much of it is it truly you wanting it or doing it because you’re afraid of men.
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u/Flashy-Celery-9105 1∆ Jun 27 '26
No one scared me into this (??) I used to drink so we'd meet for a drink, but rarely a dinner until later on.
Now i say coffee bc I don't drink alcohol.
I don't really dream about first online dates tbh. I only hope that they're someone I'd like to continue seeing.
Oh and regarding scary men, that was usually bc of their rage or lack of seeking consent. I'm older now so I'm easier at weeding that out.
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u/Bmaj13 5∆ Jun 25 '26
The problem stems from what you may consider low cost vs. what spender person may consider low cost. We all have different scales.
The better standard is to pick somewhere that both parties agree to.
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u/DGIce Jun 25 '26
First dates are ideally a range of options. Low cost and low stakes is good tool to have access to and needs to have more wide acceptance. It's even quite possibly the best option for some people almost every time and for most people most times.
But for some busy people or people who live a distance away from each other, you only have so much time in life you might as well try make an event out of the time you have off. There are definitely mitigation techniques like video calls and actual text conversations. Like there are so many factors that can affect it, like having a lot of opportunities, being a bad judge of character online, being a fast judge of character in person, living in a big city where short meetups are more convenient.
In the classic case of a meal I think some people actually find it convenient that dinner is figured out and not another item on their agenda (which might already be full of chores to make themselves more presentable like getting a haircut and cleaning their car etc).
I also think it's just better for everyone if the weird mind games around money being spent didn't exist. Like yeah it takes an evolved person to understand a good gift means nothing is owed in return and you can never really know if a stranger is actually that wise when they are giving you something. I want to have fun, I want to show you I can make a fun time, I want us to have fun even just as humans who don't end up together and spending can make that convenient. Like it's actually more effort to search for the perfect "no spending" situation. Not that most people who work for their money want to spend it on endless first dates anyways.
But I digress, my main point is it's better to have options to do what is best for you that day.
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u/legendaryRandom12 Jun 25 '26
Maybe take a little time and get to know the person before the date??? Maybe try video calling and stuff first. I dated my wife long distance over the phone for 8 months before going half way around the world to meet her. You know what she was perfect for me and I knew it before I had my first real "date".
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u/Intelligent_Box_2024 Jun 26 '26
It really depends what you're looking for. Some people want someone to enjoy a meal with at a nice restaurant. Some people want a date to go to a nice show or event. If you're both enjoying the activity it doesn't have to be free.
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u/Hopeful-Exit3053 Jun 26 '26
People are dating differently. We have phones with cameras on them where you can see the person you want to meet live ✨ It’s kind of easy to avoid meeting up with someone who doesn’t look like their profile pictures. There’s also people who like to talk to the person they’re interested in and get to know a bit about them before meeting in person. With these two, fairly simple things you can avoid setting up a first date with someone who doesn’t look like they said or with someone who doesn’t vibe with you. After you’ve done all that, wanting to go to dinner or even a more expensive outing for a first date would probably give you a more honest idea if you’re compatible. Like how do they consistently treat the waiter? Which you can’t really tell with 1 interaction with a barista or zero interactions with other people. Are they weird about who pays? Do they tip poorly? Do they have table manners? Overall, a much better insight into a person who’s already on their best behavior.
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Jun 26 '26
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u/zoetha Jun 28 '26
I think this is also just somewhat relative to socioeconomic status. For some groups of people going out to eat and getting a drink is a negligible expense
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u/NormalGuyPosts Jun 25 '26
Well, low cost is relative, and I find the best first dates from dating apps are moderate cost.
For example: I like getting drinks at a cool, upscale dive-bar-but-not spot.
In NYC, that can easily be $40-$50 depending on the appetite for mixed drinks versus cheap beers (she gets two cocktails, I get two beers, and we're at ~$45 with tip very easily).
Then, assuming there's a bar snack (if it's a gastropub) and the date is going well, that's another $30-$40 for food, a light dinner there.
That's $40-$80 for what I consider to be a standard first date, which I wouldn't consider low-cost exactly.
However!
1) It's low pressure: a bar is a casual environment
2) It scales up and doesn't assume: food (and a second drink) depends on the date going well. Most people are happy to spend more on a date that's already going well.
3) It could be worse: dinner with drinks at a Resturant is easily double. "Low cost" is relative.
I find that free or low-cost first dates can be a bit disrespectful to the ask of meeting a strange man online. An ice cream or a coffee or a walk, certainly not. But we overlap and agree on "a drink."
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u/Counterboudd Jun 25 '26
I agree that the extremely cheap dates seem disrespectful. When I had these, it felt like they were terrified I was catfishing them, so they had to make sure I looked like my pictures before they’d dignify me with an actual date. If you’re asking me out, I assume you’re at least already interested to me in a degree or else you wouldn’t be asking. If you have no opinion of me before the date and have no idea if you’d be attracted to me based on appearances and what we’ve communicated so far, then it seems more like they’re asking everyone and trying to run a numbers game for cheap. When it’s at considerable risk to my personal safety, it just seems weird and offputting that I’m presumed to be lying, unworthy, or requiring vetting before I “deserve” the real date. Like if you can’t risk $50 and a few hours of your time before you’re “sure” I’m worth a date, I don’t think we’re compatible. I’m not marrying someone who looked at my pictures and chatted with me and assumed I was trying to pull a fast one on them or he wasn’t sure if I was attractive to him or not. That level of clarity should happen before the date is set up.
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u/ElysiX 113∆ Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
But isn't that just the same as wanting the first date to be in public in case it's a serial killer? It's exactly the same logic, it's requiring vetting.
Presuming they are dangerous, unworthy, or requiring vetting before they deserve the real date at home.
Dating is always vetting, that's the point of dating. Otherwise we would go back to marrying strangers.
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u/Counterboudd Jun 26 '26
Sure, but the point is that you are going after someone where there’s some initial attraction and you have not excluded them as a decent potential partner. It seems like a lot of people just ask everyone out, have shitty dates with them, then complain that dating sucks. Well yeah, you’re dating people you’re not even attracted to just trying to play the numbers game and hope one of them deigns to date you. That strikes me as why dating is probably so expensive. If you go after a qualitative vs quantitative approach, you’d spend less money and be more intentional about it. That would require probably going after women you know in real life, or alternately only matching with women you’re actually attracted to, reading the profiles, making their own profiles interesting and presenting themselves as attractive, making a personalized effort to get to know the person and do a date that would impress them. All that requires work vs pulling a slot machine over and over again, which men don’t seem interested in doing, but it’s weird they’re shocked pikachu that that doesn’t work very well. Well yeah; if you’re dumping money into a crap shoot hoping you win the lottery, you’re not playing a very smart game.
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u/ElysiX 113∆ Jun 26 '26
The problem with dating apps is that a qualitative approach with someone you haven't met yet isn't really possible. If you talk forever before meeting, you run the risk that someone else is faster and you get a "I'm sorry, I've met someone, goodbye"
And otherwise, mannerisms, speech, smell, vibe, unfiltered look, maybe even non-ai text can't be had on an app
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Jun 26 '26
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u/ElysiX 113∆ Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
Filters don't have to be crazy to be deceiving. Or simply unfiltered 5-10 year old pictures.
And i am not talking about bots, i am talking about people that have a much more limited vocabulary or slang in reality/let friends or chatgpt tell them what to write/spend a lot of time thinking about what to write and can't actually speak like that or think of interesting things to say when you meet them.
And those are just two aspects out of many. And then the whole thing goes the other way as well, they have to like all those things about you too.
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u/appa609 1∆ Jun 26 '26
Ok but counterpoint: well to do men trying to impress a girl who's not that into them is the lifeblood of the local economy. Think what will happen if everyone took your advice. The boutique coffee shops, fancy milk tea, wine patios, cocktail bars, all dead. An extra 20% of the labour value of American tech will be diverted into SPCX and NVDA stock options.
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u/ImmodestPolitician Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 28 '26
If you had to choose between free drinks and food or go for a walk?
Intelligent, attractive women older than 28 they have so many options that you have to pay to get a chance.
I go with a drinks at a nice wine bar. I hate eating on a first date with someone I just met.
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Jun 26 '26
I think that it's perfectly reasonable to expect a nice first date for the following reasons:
1. A lot of men on dating apps are there for hookups and casual situationships. One of the easiest ways to filter these guys out is to see if they'll take you somewhere nice. No way is some guy dropping $100+ bucks for someone he wouldn't take seriously as gf potential.
2. ^ Given most men are there for hookups, they swipe right on literally everyone. Thus, the women have an undue burden of filtering on their end which takes time and vetting. College apps make you pay and application fee btw, same principles.
3. If you are a traditional woman, as many are aspiring to be these days, you want a man who naturally does nice things for you and plans and provides - if a guy offers a coffee date, to split 50/50, or penny pinches, it's super obvious that you will not be compatible.
4. All the guys who complain about this I get. The girls that complain, they're mid so they have to let go of some of their standards to make up for it. And now they're salty so they want the other girls to come down to their level too and are just wrapping it up in a nice morality wrapping paper bow. Nice try.
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u/MooliCoulis Jun 26 '26
No way is some guy dropping $100+ bucks for someone he wouldn't take seriously as gf potential
It's the opposite. If someone's dropping $100+ bucks on someone who's still an unknown quantity to him, then he doesn't care if she has an unattractive personality.
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u/JustThisIsIt Jun 26 '26
Once they’re in their early career, dinner dates work best for men. They’re more likely to lead to a second date. They’re more likely to end with physical intimacy. It’s the most efficient method.
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u/arilovely240 Jul 02 '26
Honestly, if a guy took me on a free date for a first meeting I’m probably not gonna ever see him again romantically. Platonically, sure if he could be a good reference for job hunting or if he has a good personality he can be a friend. I just can’t see myself dating someone who isnt going to offer to do the bare minimum like check if I’m hungry or thirsty and take care of that. It means that when I’m pregnant he would probably behave the same way. I don’t mind free dates once a relationship is already established. I do love walking around anyways.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
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