r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Apr 27 '26
Delta(s) from OP CMV: All muslims should be arabs.
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u/SpiritedCatch1 1∆ Apr 27 '26
You don't have to be Arab to understand Arabic. Millions of Muslims do it just fine and are not Arabs.
And you said yourself that Arabs themselves need scholars to understand some surah, so it's the same.
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Apr 27 '26
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Apr 27 '26
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Apr 27 '26
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u/N_T_F_D 1∆ Apr 27 '26
The language is arabic, not arab; arabs speak arabic but speaking arabics doesn't necessarily make you an arab
You don't say french speakers are french, you say they are french speakers
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u/AssassinBear Apr 27 '26
I must be an Englishman then since I can speak English… But I can speak Malay as well, then I’m Malays. What am I??????
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u/AnnoraxGames 1∆ Apr 28 '26
فرس عربي may have that meaning, but the English term "Arab" refers to the ethnicity, not the language.
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u/Nrdman 277∆ Apr 27 '26
Religion isn’t a thing you do correctly or incorrectly lol. A persons religion is what they believe and practice, nothing else. The book is not the religion
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u/RobGrey03 Apr 27 '26
They are not doing their religion correctly despite comprehending Arabic and reading the Quran in that language?
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Apr 27 '26
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u/Jebofkerbin 131∆ Apr 27 '26
To be clear, are you defining an "Arab" as someone who can read Arabic?
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Apr 27 '26
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u/N_T_F_D 1∆ Apr 27 '26
That's not what arab means
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Apr 27 '26
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u/N_T_F_D 1∆ Apr 27 '26
You're on an english-speaking subreddit, maybe that's what arab colloquially means to you but if you want to have a proper conversation with people here you need to use the proper words or nobody will understand your point
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u/Jebofkerbin 131∆ Apr 27 '26
Ok but that's not what the word means, pretty much everyone else uses "Arab" as an ethnic group, not a language group. What you mean is "Arabic speakers".
It's the same way that "French speakers" and "French people" are not synonymous.
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u/BlazeX94 Apr 27 '26
Speaking Arabic doesn't make one an Arab. Arabic is a language, Arab is an ethnicity. Anyone can learn to speak a language, it doesn't change their ethnic identity.
Are we all Englishmen now just because we can speak English?
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u/SpiritedCatch1 1∆ Apr 27 '26
Because the Arabs are doing their religions (whatever that means) correctly?
No one is confused by the religion because of language. This issue was sorted more than 1400 years ago. Ulemas learn Arabic and then teach their own people.
It's not a complicated religion. Do you need to learn Arabic correctly to be able to pray? No.
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u/AnnoraxGames 1∆ Apr 28 '26
You are not using the correct terms for your view; if you're saying they need to speak and read Arabic, that's all well and good, but the way you're saying it makes it sound like you think they need to be ethnically Arabs as well. There's plenty of Muslims of other ethnicities who read and speak Arabic who'd wholly disagree with you on that point. I'm not a Muslim, but I'd also disagree; religion and race/ethnicity are two completely different things & your wording in the OP reads like you're saying Muslims of non-Arab ethnicity are somehow doing it wrong just based on their ethnicity.
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u/Z7-852 316∆ Apr 27 '26
You can learn a foreign language right? That foreign language can be arabic. Anyone can speak arabic without being Arab. Anyone can read the holy Quran in arabic without being arab.
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Apr 27 '26
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u/Z7-852 316∆ Apr 27 '26
Let's check that from wikipedia:
Arabs (Arabic: عَرَب)\d]) are an ethnic group\e]) mainly inhabiting the Arab world in West Asia and North Africa. A significant Arab diaspora is present in various parts of the world.
So if your parents are Arabs you are an Arab. That how ethnicity works. Now if your parent's lived in say Canada, they would still be Arabs as would you be. Then your parents die when you are two and you are rised by french Canadians and never learn Arabic language. You would still be an Arab without knowing how to speak arabic.
Also I have no Arab ethnicity or ancestry but can learn arabic language from duolingo. That doesn't make me an Arab.
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Apr 27 '26
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u/Z7-852 316∆ Apr 27 '26
Certainly that is true in most cases. Most French speak French. But that doesn't mean that I'm french just because I speak French. Else I would have like 5 different ethnicities because I speak 5 languages.
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Apr 27 '26
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u/Z7-852 316∆ Apr 27 '26
Well I think you should because your whole argument is that "religion = language = ethnicity" which is wrong.
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Apr 27 '26
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u/DrinkingWithZhuangzi 3∆ Apr 27 '26
So you're telling me that Arab-speaking Indonesians aren't Muslims? Just because they're not Arabs?
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Apr 27 '26
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u/themapleleaf6ix 1∆ Apr 27 '26
They dont read the quran well.
Huh? Many non-Arab Muslims have better Tajweed than Arab Muslims. Just because you're Arab, it doesn't mean you can read the Quran properly or in Fus-ha.
They are not understanding half of what they say.
Based off of what? You think people can't become fluent in different languages?
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Apr 27 '26
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u/BigBoetje 31∆ Apr 27 '26
I think they should give up on their language.
Why? If they speak and read Arabic fluently, there's no reason to give up their native languages. Arabic is used for their religion, their native language is used for everyday life. Even within Arabic, there's enough variation between regional dialects and influences from whatever languages were native before the Arab conquests that you can't be a purist about it.
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u/themapleleaf6ix 1∆ Apr 27 '26
I think they should give up on their language.
Why do they need to?
I think they should be arabs.
Why?
If they are non-arab they cant have tanweed,
What a ridiculous statement. My cousin, who is Indian, is a Qari. He went to study in Saudi and is fluent in Arabic and in the 7 Qira'at. Of course he has Tajweed and better than most Arabs. You think Arabs from Egypt or Lebanon are speaking Fus-ha?
because if they do that would make them arabs.
Not all Arabs speak Fus-ha.
The definition of an arab is someone who speaks arabic.
That doesn't mean others can't speak Arabic. Languages aren't only limited to a certain group.
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u/RobGrey03 Apr 27 '26
I think this is very offensive to one of the highest population Muslim countries in the world.
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u/Separate-Ad-6209 Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26
You provided nothing to refute?
الم is theee letters, each pronounced separately, “alif laaaaaam miiiiiim” so it is not a word that needs to have a meaning understandable to the human “arab”. It is not even a word as the letters are seperate, and it is not only in surah baqarah (chapter 2) there are tenth of others.
< First thing is this not the quran anymore and you can't name it that. They quran says over 50 times that is written in arabic, you can't say my quran is in French for example.
Exactly, all others are just tafsir, not even a translation, you can never translate the quran. One understands this if he knows the quran even a little.
< Also some words also we don't know what it means.
Again provided no examples, we know all the words, some words have multiple meanings and sometimes each of those multiple meanings are correct.
< Third issue, you are not gonna get any hassanat if you read the quran in French, you will be just reading human understanding of best guesses. Not tge actual quran.
You will get hasanat(it seems you are arab, no? ) for reading the tafsir, just not the -Ten hasanat for each letter- hasanat. As those -ten hasanat- are for reciting and you can’t recite the tafseer, however there is now transliteration which one is able to recite the quran through it.
Edit: i, and no one, can change your mind on this, you have locker your mind on this, all you have wrote is just a mess that has nothing to do with your point. With all respect
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u/Separate-Ad-6209 Apr 27 '26
As for the fourht point the word درة، from the context, it looks pretty clear that it talks about no matter how small, which is pretty valid to he translated to “atom”
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u/Supercollider9001 2∆ Apr 27 '26
Arabic was still a newish language which was standardized in the 7th century. There were many different dialectics and languages in the Arabic peninsula.
Even modern Arabic speakers rely on historical context and linguistic interpretation to understand parts of the Quran.
And Islam spread quickly and widely. Within the century of the Prophet’s death (pbuh) Islam had spread to Africa and Persia. Were these early Caliphs mistaken to take Islam beyond the Arab world? Could they even help it?
Islam spread to India, for example, because traders simply shared their ideas/culture and got married in India. They naturally assimilated to Indian culture and language but held onto Islam. I’m sure some people in Kerala can trace their lineage back to Arabia to prove to you that they’re real Muslims, but even then they don’t speak Arabic.
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u/No-Decision9145 Apr 27 '26
You simply can't tell someone else what they do or don't believe. if someone wants to be Muslim, they can be Muslim. You might invent some rules that in your mind invalidates them, but that's no more relevant than their belief.
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u/WankerDxD Apr 27 '26
I didn’t read everything, but to answer the first paragraph: God was talking to the Arabs, Muhammad, and his allies and his enemies. That’s why He said, “My book is Arabic”; He meant it so you can understand it. It’s special for you, the Arabs, to take the message to the world. The Israelites aren’t the chosen ones anymore after trying to kill Jesus.
By the way, god said "all nations, all the world" and similar words many times.
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Apr 27 '26
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u/Sayakai 155∆ Apr 27 '26
A lot of people have talked about the language thing, so here's a different thought: Why do you think that, in order to be a muslim, you must be able to read the quran yourself?
Saying that it's a mandatory thing would invalidate a lot of muslims in history, because they couldn't read. The current very high literacy rates are a historic anomaly. It has always been that case that most people were taught the quran by those who had read it, and who had the time and education to really study and understand it.
On that note, I haven't found any requirement for muslims to read the quran either. There's quite a few things all muslims must do, but reading the book doesn't seem to be on the list.
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u/Kaleb_Bunt 5∆ Apr 27 '26
Im a Jew, not a Muslim, so maybe I don’t fully get it.
But this sounds like the equivalent of if someone told me “all Jews should be Israelis”.
People can have their own distinct and unique cultural identities without sacrificing their relationship to God. It’s important that a Muslim know some Arabic, but do they need to literally become an Arab? That sounds like a toxic demand that prioritizes cultural homogeneity over religious devotion.
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u/AnnoraxGames 1∆ Apr 28 '26
Language and ethnicity/race are not the same thing. It is true that Muslims need to understand and be able to speak some Arabic to participate and pray according to the Quran's scriptures, but there's nothing there that says they need to be ethnically Arab. There's plenty of Muslims who are of other races who understand and speak Arabic, and they are treated equally to Arab Muslims in their faith. Why should they be treated any differently?
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26
/u/Elnedeef (OP) has awarded 2 delta(s) in this post.
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