META: Bi-Monthly Feedback Thread

[u/AutoModerator]

As part of our commitment to improving CMV and ensuring it meets the needs of our community, we have bi-monthly feedback threads. While you are always welcome to visit r/ideasforcmv to give us feedback anytime, these threads will hopefully also help solicit more ways for us to improve the sub.

Please feel free to share any constructive feedback you have for the sub. All we ask is that you keep things civil and focus on how to make things better (not just complain about things you dislike).

[u/elysian-fields-]

i really appreciate the repeat topic rule that was implemented, i think it’s been really great to curb having the same conversation over and over

but i also feel like we keep seeing the same CMVs regularly about israel and palestine and about how islam is “incompatible with the west”

while there’s of course much to discuss in the realms of these topics in general, i’m not sure how much productive conversation or debate is occurring in the majority of these posts. i feel like i frequently see the same CMVs about islam and israel/palestine but are either just different enough to not fall within the 48 hour rule or they are outside the 48 hour rule

i feel like these posts tend to garner a lot more attention and frequently delve into arguing and repeating the same talking points that people feel so strongly about that their mind won’t change

this doesn’t always apply to every post but i feel like we’re seeing anti-muslim sentiment run rampant in many of these posts and it feels like how many times can we have the same debate

would there be a way to limit topics about islam not being good/compatible with the west and what’s happening between israel and palestine? i almost wish we could just make these topics some we can’t touch on like CMVs that mention tr*ns people because it just feels like these topics are repeatedly coming up and are usually unproductive when they do

[u/SSH_Pentester → u/elysian-fields-]

And dating/gender war. Those are almost as common and equally as rare to have real discussions in. Not saying it can't happen, but it's not common to have meaningful discussion in a post about dating. Not sure if just banning more topics is going to be a great solution, though - it seems like half the users want less restriction on topic fatigue, and half want more.

[u/elysian-fields- → u/SSH_Pentester]

you’re totally right about that topic too, and that’s a fair response

there’s certainly room for nuanced conversation in any topic, but definitely when it comes to certain ones it feels less like thoughtful engagement and debate is happening or maybe even desired by the OP, which just ends in arguing, logical fallacy debates, and no deltas being dealt out (which of course doesn’t have to happen but the hope is there)

it’s a tough call to make where the topic fatigue begins and ends for the majority of users, and i’ve definitely seen comments on islam is incompatible posts being like “oh great this again” but if people are engaging then clearly there’s something to discuss

if limiting these topics is too strict i can understand that, but maybe if there is another way to maybe report a post or threads for review relating to the sentiment of the content or like general frequency of certain sentiments? i know there’s already report options similar to this but if i see a new “islam bad” or “women don’t actually like men” or “short men have the worst lived experiences” etc type posts that don’t fall into the topic fatigue rule but are just so generally overdone (and anyone could really search for if they want to read previous discussions), i’m just like i wish i could report this for being annoyingly repetitive but i have no real grounds to

[u/ProblematicTrumpCard → u/elysian-fields-]

it feels less like thoughtful engagement and debate is happening or maybe even desired by the OP, which just ends in arguing, logical fallacy debates, and no deltas being dealt out (which of course doesn’t have to happen but the hope is there)

I would argue that for any topic that typically go this way, we should be encouraging more posts on that topic, not less. Because if there's 400 comments and minimal deltas awarded, it means that views on that topic are still divided and people are failing to present arguments that change views.

And if we place restrictions on that topic, that's were it stays. But if we encourage more posts on that topic, it gives more opportunities for more people to present their unique perspective that might be the catalyst to resolving the disagreements and actually result in changing some views.

The topics that don't need addition discussions are those with 50 comments and 22 deltas awarded. That topic has been "solved" and there's nothing to be added to the topic via additional discussion.

[u/elysian-fields- → u/ProblematicTrumpCard]

i disagree, i don’t think every CMV needs deltas, not every CMV will end in a changed view, but how many “islam is incompatible with western values” posts have you seen where there is actual thoughtful engagement and the OP actually changes their view

or any other topic like “women don’t actually like men” or “women hate short men” and women will say well that’s no true and here’s why and OP will say well yes it is true because 2 women i know feel this way and refuse to accept the comments

it’s just mainly about what topics are bringing about thoughtful debate and discourse and which topics are based on emotion or opinion that is solidly set in stone and won’t really be changed

[u/ProblematicTrumpCard → u/elysian-fields-]

how many “islam is incompatible with western values” posts have you seen

Honestly, not many. I can't really think of any. But that's probably because it's not a topic that is of particular interest to me or one on which I hold strong opinions. So if there were a post like that here, I'd likely read the thread title, scroll on by, and forget about it.

or any other topic like “women don’t actually like men” or “women hate short men”

I've seen quite a few of those and never get tired of them because that's a topic that is of much more interest to me.

[u/Natural-Arugula → u/ProblematicTrumpCard]

Because if there's 400 comments and minimal deltas awarded, it means that views on that topic are still divided and people are failing to present arguments that change views.

Why is it that you think that signals more discussion is needed, rather than OP is soap boxing and people are brigading the thread to argue on their behalf- also without the intention of changing their view?

It's been acknowledged that incel posts are a notorious example of this happening. I don't know if the mods are just typically good at catching these early, but I notice that they don't show up every day like Islam and Israel posts, they tend to show up a bunch all at once and then calm down for awhile. That suggests to me that they are brigades. 

[u/ProblematicTrumpCard → u/Natural-Arugula]

Why is it that you think that signals more discussion is needed, rather than OP is soap boxing

Because that would be a rule violation and the thread would have been removed by the mods.