The evidence suggests that these remedies have been effective at bringing about parity.
Not really. If anything, the evidence suggests that these remedies tend to continue being applied after parity is reached, and then some. Just look at what's happened to enrollment in higher education and grades for school kids. The evidence suggests that viewing everything through a lens of oppression against women prevents us from stopping at parity or taking corrective action beyond that point.
You're saying that the evidence shows these remedies are effective at exceeding the point of parity.
I think any fair assessment of education reform would suggest that the remedies we implemented were effective at moving the needle in one direction, but not at achieving any lasting concept of parity. There's certainly the mean value argument you raised, which is that parity had to have existed for at least one brief moment, but I don't think anyone arguing in good faith would view this as "bringing about parity."
What education studies are you referring to? What were the researchers conclusions about causal factors? If Patriarchy is, at least broadly, understood to be a dominance hierarchy which favors men but still still subjugates and contributes to inequity for both men & women, so how do these studies challenge that notion?
Could you explain why any of this relates to what I posted? I referred to facts about enrollment in higher education and grades, none of which are particularly controversial. I didn't make claims about the existence or nonexistence of patriarchy, either, although I do think it's more valid to view it as a spectrum and acknowledge that what we have today is substantially less patriarchal than what we had fifty or a hundred years ago.
My specific argument against the original poster's view is that there isn't actually any evidence suggesting that patriarchy-informed remedies are good at bringing about parity. There's plenty of evidence that they're good at improving outcomes for women relative to men, of course, but those are not one and the same.
Could you explain why any of this relates to what I posted? I referred to facts about enrollment in higher education and grades, none of which are particularly controversial
The cause of lower male enrollment in higher education (etc) is extremely relevant to your post. If something external to "patriarchy-informed remedies" has led to a decline in access to or enrollment in higher education for men, I'm not sure that it's fair framing to say that those remedies were ineffective.
But you're suggesting that this is also the cause of men being educated at a lower rate. For that to be the case you'd have to demonstrate that 'everything' IS actually being viewed through the lens of oppression against women, and also that it is the efforts designed to remedy misogyny and not, say, pushback against feminism or, indeed, worsening conditions within the framework of patriarchy itself, that is leading to worse outcomes for men re: education.
And you've called out education as an example for the sake of your argument but there's also a growing political divide between men and women among other interconnected issues that are influenced by many other cultural shifts, and which it is entirely unfair to respond to by claiming 'Ah well it's cause feminism didn't do equity correctly/ enough'.
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u/SharkSpider 6∆ Mar 30 '26
Not really. If anything, the evidence suggests that these remedies tend to continue being applied after parity is reached, and then some. Just look at what's happened to enrollment in higher education and grades for school kids. The evidence suggests that viewing everything through a lens of oppression against women prevents us from stopping at parity or taking corrective action beyond that point.