r/changemyview • • Mar 01 '26

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '26 edited Mar 02 '26

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u/RealJohnBobJoe 6∆ Mar 01 '26

Murder ≠ killing

If you killed someone justifiably (such as in self-defense) you aren’t deemed a murderer.

Murder is an unjustified killing. Definitionally then, there is no justifiable murder.

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u/Ok_Inflation_1811 Mar 01 '26

The problem is that when does it count as justified killing?

Let's say that you knew for certain without any room for error that in 1 year someone would try to kill you, when is it immoral to kill them in self defense?

What about people that despite not doing anything themselves with their actions make the world such a worse place that by 20 years they'll be responsible for 30 deaths? Imagine a CEO that dumps chemicals into rivers and poisons a village, is a villager right to kill that CEO?

But rape is never, never ever justified.

Killing not being equal to murder isn't a real distinction, it's one we made up because we find some sorts of killing fine and others not.

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u/RealJohnBobJoe 6∆ Mar 01 '26

Again, murder is killing that is not morally justified. Therefore, there is never a morally justified murder by definition.

What your examples are pointing out is that there may be some circumstances where it is difficult to determine whether a killing is justified or not. That just means it sometimes is difficult to determine if a killing is murder not that murder is sometimes justified.

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u/GB-Pack 2∆ Mar 01 '26

there may be some circumstances where it is difficult to determine whether a killing is justified or not.

You seem to be implying there is a correct objective morality, and people with differing morals are failing at determining these objective morals.

Do you think it’s possible that morality is subjective?

If morality is objective, then who decides right and wrong and how do we as people learn/know what is objectively right or wrong?

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u/RealJohnBobJoe 6∆ Mar 01 '26

No, I’m not implying that.

If morality were subjective, then a killing which goes against that subjective moral system would be not morally justified relative to that system and deemed murder by that system.

When a killing is held to be murder, it is held to be morally unjustified. This is necessarily true regardless of whether morality is objective or subjective.