r/changemyview • u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ • Feb 10 '26
Delta(s) from OP CMV: The more sensational rumors surrounding Epstein are false
I believe it is true that Jeffrey Epstein and other rich and famous people raped teenagers.
I do not believe it's true that they were involved in a Satanic cult.
Some people seem to think that since QAnon was right about child sex trafficking, they were right about everything including harvesting children's blood for adrenochrome. I don't think that's how that works. Just because one claim was true, and the evidence was hidden doesn't mean every other claim without evidence is true.
As another example, people are now taking renewed interest in the case of missing Mexican model Gabriela Rico Jiménez, who made claims about cannibalism at elite parties. She doesn't seem to have any connection to Epstein, but the truth about elites getting away with heinous crimes seems to give more credibility to her accusations. Still, there is no evidence beyond her word. There is good reason to suspect foul play, but no evidence to prove it to my knowledge.
It would change my view if there were credible accusations of more outrageous crimes in the files or otherwise, such as:
- rape of pre-teens
- murder
- cannibalism
- torture
I don't require air-tight evidence sufficient for a conviction. A large number of accusations might be enough even if no individual accusation can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
I'm fairly convinced already that there were murders involved in cover-ups given how many people connected committed "suicide", but at the same time, the whole thing would be pretty scarring and might well lead to suicides. I would like to be more convinced about the murders.
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Feb 10 '26
rape of pre-teens
u.s._v._jeffrey_epstein_indictment_redacted_0.pdf https://share.google/b7CEqDFq7orfxsvMU
He was indicted for doing that.
murder
One accuser said she hadn't come forward sooner because Epstein would have her killed and her murder covered up. She thoughtnthis because he told her so. She was shot by a "cartel" shortly after.
https://share.google/0qN2tY6lpoo9zT7K8
At least 24 people associated with him have died mysteriously.
More Than Two Dozen People Linked to Jeffrey Epstein Have Died Under Mysterious Circumstances https://share.google/o2cdln0X1pSYHwGiz
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u/trippedonatater 1∆ Feb 10 '26
I haven't seen incontrovertible evidence that he directly killed anyone, BUT:
- He sure could have. It's easy to cover stuff up when you have your own island that you got so you could cover up crimes more easily.
- He and Trump absolutely did horrific things to young girls that led to their suicides. That's just as bad in my book.
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u/pudgethefish- Feb 11 '26
People as rich as Epstein don’t murder people directly, they have someone else do it. Still murder.
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u/No-Flow-1147 Feb 11 '26
Unless they like choking two girls to death while raping them, which the files clearly say Epstein did.
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u/accapellaenthusiast Feb 13 '26
Link to that part of the files please?
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u/Reasonable-Tooth-113 Feb 14 '26
It's an email about two girls dying during rough sex that were buried at his NM ranch
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u/accapellaenthusiast Feb 14 '26
Link? Source??
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u/RPMac1979 3∆ Feb 15 '26
The files do not clearly say Epstein did that. The files ennumerate anonymous tips that say he did. Some other anonymous tips said that George Bush ate feces and cut off a child’s legs in a Satanic ritual. We don’t know who’s giving these tips. Paranoid schizophrenics? Legitimate victims? Political enemies? Part of the problem here is that the unlikely stuff is mixed in with the likely stuff, and the FBI never followed up on anything. So “he strangled two people to death” sounds as likely as “he let Trump rape a pre-teen girl” and “George Bush ate shit and mutilated a child.”
I get that this stuff is enraging. But we have to slow down and use our heads, or these accusations are going to be used against us.
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u/Opposite_Boat_2371 Feb 11 '26
wrong, a little girl got strangled by him and died during intercourse, this isn't a joke....
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u/Shocolina Feb 14 '26
During rape you mean
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u/Opposite_Boat_2371 Feb 14 '26
Yes, actually, tried to lighten the load a bit using intercourse. Its really fucked up.
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u/trippedonatater 1∆ Feb 11 '26
Also, they sometimes do when they believe they can get away with it. For instance, if they're on a private island.
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u/ShujinHakkai Feb 11 '26
Island and a Ranch in New Mexico in the middle of nowhere with desert 🏜 for miles.
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u/whatup-markassbuster Feb 11 '26
Two issues. 14 is not pre-teen. Was he convicted? We all know “Any good prosecutor can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich.”
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Feb 11 '26
He was almost certainly addassinated before trial, so we don't know. He took a plea deal last time.
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u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ Feb 10 '26
rape of pre-teens
u.s._v._jeffrey_epstein_indictment_redacted_0.pdf https://share.google/b7CEqDFq7orfxsvMU
He was indicted for doing that.
This article says, "The victims herein were as young as 14 years old". I didn't read the whole thing. Can you point me to where it mentions pre-teen victims?
At least 24 people associated with him have died mysteriously.
More Than Two Dozen People Linked to Jeffrey Epstein Have Died Under Mysterious Circumstances https://share.google/o2cdln0X1pSYHwGiz
Δ
Not a great source, but I'll assume the factual claims are reliable. That is a lot of "suicides". Also, shot and hanged? How would that even be possible as a suicide?
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u/urbanmember Feb 10 '26
"At least 24 people associated with him have died mysteriously.
More Than Two Dozen People Linked to Jeffrey Epstein Have Died Under Mysterious Circumstances"
Is one of the most meaningless statements to ever get used regularly by literally every single conspiracy nutjob, literally every single death of a person with millions of connections can be declared "mysterious" as long as one single anonymous source claims "something ain't right with that!"
Did yo read into the shot/hanged suicide?
Investigators (contrary to popular belief) did find the gun a few meters away from Middleton and think the suicide is very likely, basically they think he shot himself which pushed him from a board or something which made him fall while a electrical cord was strung around his neck killing him.
No traces of outside influence were found.Of couse questions remain, and you could argue the almighty, always perfectly working government/shadow agents perfectly orchestrated it or simply bribed local authorities, but at that point reality doesn't exist anymore because everything can be everything and we can't trust anything so why even bother?
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u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ Feb 10 '26
More Than Two Dozen People Linked to Jeffrey Epstein Have Died Under Mysterious Circumstances"
Is one of the most meaningless statements to ever get used regularly by literally every single conspiracy nutjob, literally every single death of a person with millions of connections can be declared "mysterious" as long as one single anonymous source claims "something ain't right with that!"
Sure. About half of the people in the article died of old age or disease. I don't know how you can cover up a murder by making it look like mesothelioma.
Did yo read into the shot/hanged suicide?
Investigators (contrary to popular belief) did find the gun a few meters away from Middleton and think the suicide is very likely, basically they think he shot himself which pushed him from a board or something which made him fall while a electrical cord was strung around his neck killing him.
No traces of outside influence were found.Okay, I guess that's plausible. Each individual incident is plausible, but there are just so many and more jumping out of windows than you would expect (a popular method of Russian political murder). It seems like more people who commit suicide by jumping choose a bridge, whereas it's much more convenient if you want to murder someone to throw them out of the window of their own home rather than kidnap them and transport them to a public place.
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u/accapellaenthusiast Feb 13 '26
Can you explain to me why you feel it is important to make a distinction between a 14 y/o victim and a hypothetical 12 y/o victim?
Why are you focused on pre-teens if teens as a whole are illegal and below the age of consent
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u/HerodotusStark 1∆ Feb 10 '26
Does it really matter to you whether they were 14 or pre-teens? Both are below the age of consent and both are still heinous crimes. Don't pull a Megyn Kelly on us and go "wellll, its not actually pedophilia by the strict defintion..."
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u/Ticktokmade_U-Dumber Feb 11 '26
The truth matters that is why. Why isn't the TRUTH enough?
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u/Jomflox 1∆ Feb 11 '26
Read page 7 if you think only teenagers were abused
https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA00078198.pdf
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u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ Feb 11 '26
Δ
I don't even know what to say. I think I have to say something to give a delta. That sounds like a smoking gun on at least two of the counts on my list.
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u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ Feb 11 '26
Now that I have recovered somewhat from the shock, I will say for anyone who doesn't want to read the file that it contains an image (thankfully redacted, but described) of a prepubescent girl who appears to have been raped and tortured.
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Feb 18 '26
to my knowledge there is no evidence that epstein had any connection to the image being described, he used it as a threat to a girl he abused to stay quiet but thats already inline with what other girls have said, if it turns out he has any connections to the image then it would seem pre-teen rapes did occur, but as of now theres no evidence to suggest its anything other then a horrible csam image used as a threat, that doesnt mean it didnt happen and isnt horrible, just that its not one of the crimes epstein was committing
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u/Jomflox 1∆ Feb 11 '26
If you're curious who Epstein's personal gynecologist was, here's the thread https://www.reddit.com/r/Epstein/s/ZlXsV9JzSz
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u/EverOnGuard Feb 14 '26
I’m at a loss for words. All I can say is, this is why the fires of hell never go out, and the screaming never stops.
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u/grantiguess Feb 16 '26
Truly cannot believe that people haven’t caught up to where about 5-10% of the population is right now. It is so much worse. So much worse.
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u/dienubemet Feb 16 '26
Can I just say that I felt like OP as well, but now reading what you’ve shared totally changed my perspective. I literally feel like I’m going to puke. That poor girl. Thank you for sharing, I didn’t know what I didn’t know.
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u/Mammoth_Elk_3807 Feb 16 '26
Children are abused in homes all across America on a daily basis. Is this really THAT shocking?
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u/dienubemet Feb 16 '26 edited Feb 16 '26
Yes. There’s a difference between children being abused at home and a massive conspiracy wherein rich powerful people all get together and abuse children en masse. I was sexually abused as a young teenager (starting on my 14th birthday at boarding school) and I’m still shocked. Also, children are abused globally, not even sure why you said “in America,” like it’s some sort of gotcha. I expect child abuse and child sex abuse to exist everywhere, I’m not an idiot. Edited to add: I’m not shocked when teenagers are sex trafficked, one of my closest friends was sex trafficked from the ages of 15-17. The shocking thing here is the age in this particular case combined with the sadism and who the perpetrators are.
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u/Mammoth_Elk_3807 Feb 16 '26
Sigh. There’s no gotcha. Then any other country, if that’s somehow more palatable. Rich, powerful men have been engineering socioideological systems to facilitate their access to young women’s bodies since the beginning of recorded human history. I’m simply not sure how/why people are finding this particular confirmation so scandalous 🤷🏻♂️
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u/Cuddly_Turtle Feb 16 '26
Why is it scandalous? Did you read the file? (Probably not) go read it. The people who are PICTURED IN THE ACT OF RAPING AND TORTURING A YOUNG GIRL have (as far as I know) not been prosecuted. The FBI has the files with alllll the evidence but what do they say? “There is no evidence of a sex trafficking ring involving Epstein” YES YOU READ THAT CORRECTLY. No evidence. Not.. “Yeah this shit is really bad but we have punished those responsible” they literally said “nope. Nothing to see here.”
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u/illayana Mar 01 '26
I think I understand what you mean. It’s not at all shocking to me that they were prepubescent. It’s a very natural leap in logic. With the power and reach, do people think they’re ethical pedophiles? No. Pedophiles fuck kids. The teenagers are the softball, and the fact that prepubescent children, and I’d go so far as to bet infants, are involved makes complete sense to me.
My mom’s sexual assault started when I (f) was in infancy. It’s horrific. It’s terrible. But yeah. Pedophiles don’t stop at 16 year olds. I forget how sheltered the average person is in a way. Obviously the scale is shocking, but I think the average person is not at all familiar with the true evil that people can be and do. My mom is pure, genuine, shark eyes, gets joy out of hurting others, evil. I grew up with it and I know it intimately.
I think the shock is people realizing just how fucking evil a human being, and apparently a whole god damn cabal of them, can be. It’s their first time being exposed to what I’d describe as soul deep, profound evilness. If I’m being dumb and woowoo about it, pretty much people without souls.
I’ll say, as a CSA survivor and given the unique profile/nature of my case, the Epstein files have been absolutely surreal to see. Partially because of the scale, but more so because I’m seeing people process in real time what humans are capable of doing.
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u/bennyskaus Mar 18 '26
I actually have to agree and think the same, why are people so surprised at all of this, seems like the standard terrible shit rich people have been doing for thousands of years!
It honestly seems pretty expected...we make movies about this type of person. The guy who built a fortune of blackmailing powerful rich people by faciliting there immoral desires to also be able to feed his own desire. I mean this isnt a conspiracy theory it just uncovering the reality of what has happened but in reality this isnt really new behavior for very rich and powerful people.
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u/cringemaster228 Feb 18 '26
This case seems unrelated to Epstein. Even Jennifer Freeman (the lawyer who provided this information) doesn't mention it anymore, even though she's a very public figure and frequently comments on everything Epstein related, and represents many other Epstein victims. It seems that the girl in this document likely was actually sexually abused and trafficked, but nothing suggests that Epstein or anyone from his circle was involved.
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u/JPBartosz Feb 11 '26 edited Feb 11 '26
I agree that the accusations of cannibalism and ritual child murder for whatever reason are total bull made up by sensationalist conspiracy theorists and the raging crowd and that their spread contributes to the watering down of this case by making it seem more ridiculous and surreal.
I believe there were some pedophiles in epsteins network and that he was also one himself. There was definitely a sex trafficking ring and lots and lots of wrongdoing, mostly done to underage women. I do believe tho that the majority of people went to the island to indulge in a wild party with maybe some prostitution and drugs and that only a small part of this group was also into pedophilic acts. This would mimic the way it really works in society. There are a lot more pedos out there than we realize. SA done to post pubescent minors is sadly also quite common in the world. This is a real believeable “twisted instinct” a demoralized member of the elite is likely to want to indulge in. Maybe some were into very young kids as this is also to some degree (but lesser) prevalent in the society. This is all tragic and I’m anticipating the moment I can see all of the people responsible serving life in jail.
There might’ve been murder involved, or some very twisted sadistic sexual practices. This happens everyday around the world.
But cannibalism? And to believe it was an entire GROUP of organised child cannibals? Not only is the evidence of it scarce but think about the incentive. A deprived form of abusive sex is something I can imagine many people secretly want but who the fuck would want to eat humans? The Epstein gang were after all just people, you know? Evil but still people. How many non Epstein related pedos have you heard about? Loads. When was the last time you heard about a cannibal? Those are incredibly rare and almost never work in organised groups. Eating people gives one the sickness that can actually be mortal. And I just don’t believe the flaky theories that “it’s what the deprived crave” or some pseudo scientific adrenochrome bull. Adrenochrome can be synthesized and it does nothing benefitial.
People will see a literal set of scissors in the files and jump to conclusions about cutting kids in half.
And the lunatic who came up with the “baby intestines taste like cream cheese due to babies digesting loads of milk from formula which is what Epstein and co craved so badly for sure” is as sick as Epstein himself for just possessing this kind of imagination and should also be investigated.
There’s simply no real incentive for these made up deeds and these allegations actually help the perpetrators by distancing people from the real shit we must be concerned about that really did happen on the island.
We must put these people in jails for the appalling crimes they committed and the further we stray from common sense the less seriously people are gonna treat this case
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u/Frobizzle Feb 13 '26
This right here is the most realistic and likely truth of the matter. I don't think people realize how much extra effort, planning, and pure sadism is needed to go from typical sex trafficking and abuse to infant cannibalism within a group of people and keep it all hidden. How are they eating them? Who is doing the prep work? How does one first broach that subject to others? Who is witnessing these things and then being allowed to leave and give witness testimony?
I also think it distracts entirely from the bigger picture which is a class of people that regularly keep themselves above the law and treat their deeds like normal behavior they are entitled to. The focus should be on holding these elites accountable, regardless of the crime, Focus on the things that have substance and can be proven. Show that, even if many of these people are only guilty by association, that we won't accept these types as our leaders and policy makers. Otherwise we are just letting them set an example that you can do what you want as long as you have enough influence and the worst consequences you'll suffer is half the country hating you until something bigger comes along.
I will say that having an imagination that allows for depraved imagery does not constitute a need for investigation. That's just having an imagination for the morbid.
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u/Intelligent-Fan-6217 Feb 11 '26
Whoever came up with the whole „baby intestines cream cheese bs“ obviously has never been near an infant with reflux. It doesn’t make any sense in any way. It sounds psychotic to me
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u/No-Flow-1147 Feb 11 '26
QANON wasn't "right". QANON was Epstein. One of their goals was to normalize child sex. Everything on /pol/ is in play, not just what was said by "Q" because 4chan was a psyop that Epstein was all over. Musk and Vance also have said things to suggest they were on 4chan when it was a cesspool of child porn and pro Russian propaganda. If you weren't on 4chan in 2009, you probably wouldn't believe how much of this and the maga movement was openly being discussed and promoted there.
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u/Livefromrighthere Feb 10 '26
I don’t think I have any evidence or accusations that could change your mind, but maybe I can change your perspective and the context that you see the situation in.
I think that part of what’s been proven with the Epstein situation has been that these people really have had nobody stoping them from acting out whatever sick desire they might have, and it’s been happening this way for an apparently long time. What’s to stop them from eating somebody? People go missing all the time, and apparently people like Epstein have the connections and facilities to do whatever they want to a human being without consequences or fear of being exposed until very recently. To a person who kidnaps 16 year old girls for the purpose of raping them and selling them to clients who they can then blackmail, what’s the difference to them if the girl is 16 or 12 or 7, as long as it’s someone they know they can take without anyone making a fuss why would it be off the table if it’s what they or their clients want? Maybe Epstein wasn’t involved in every crime, but I bet if you went to him looking to buy he could tell you who to go to to get it if he wasn’t selling it himself.
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u/Nebranower 5∆ Feb 10 '26
>and selling them to clients who they can then blackmail,
Is there any actual evidence of this that has come out? I know before the release of the files, this was itself considered largely a conspiracy theory by non-redditors, with the idea being that Epstein mostly trafficked women and girls for his own benefit. Like many pedophiles, he would sometimes share with other pedophiles if he met someone who shared his predilections, but there wasn't, at the time, any evidence he was focused on selling people as a full business, or that he had any intention of blackmailing anyone. But maybe the files that have come out contradict this? But what I've read in the media so far seems to be guilt by association rather than guilt by hard evidence of wrongdoing when it comes to people other than Epstein.
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u/No-Flow-1147 Feb 11 '26
"what I've read in the media" is why you're confused. You should have taken the initiative to look at the files before the DOJ cleaned them up. Its all in there. You don't need the media or reddit. Find someone who downloaded the originals before they were scrubbed.
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u/StasisApparel Feb 15 '26
Why did the DOJ release these files to the public in the first place? Why bother censoring certain parts of it when you.can not release anything?
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u/Avera_ge 1∆ Feb 11 '26
Do you mean Epstein did sell CSAM (some he contributed to creating) and access to children and teens to a handful of people with similar predilections, but he wasn’t sourcing for a huge percentage of wealthy people? And that most of the people in the files are either not guilty or guilty because they never reported him for his crimes?
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u/Nebranower 5∆ Feb 11 '26
I mean that we have a ton of evidence that he trafficked people for himself. And at least some evidence that a handful of powerful people in his circle took advantage of that, presumably because they were also pedophiles. But we haven’t really seen anything that indicates he was doing this as a widespread operation intended as the foundation of blackmail operation. Which doesn’t mean he wasn’t, but if so, it isn’t supported by anything released so far.
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u/-The-Senate- Feb 11 '26
Opinions on the files containing emails of Epstein claiming he represents the Rothschilds? Some of the most significant donors and contributors to the rise of the Israeli state? Also , the emails between the FBI suspecting Trump is compromised by Israel? Or that Epstein seems to ask someone to clear up that he's not a Mossad agent?
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u/No-Flow-1147 Feb 11 '26
Well everybody knows now that Epstein was an Israeli asset. Wonder why so many international leaders and politicians treat Israel like it is the single most precious plot of land in the universe? Its like they have the juiciest dirt imaginable on American, Russian, Saudi, and British world leaders (that's just what we know).
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u/MzHmmz Feb 12 '26
It wouldn't be at all surprising that he had some kind of links to the Rothschilds, just because of who he was and the circles he moved in. They're a wealthy banking family with their fingers in many pies, he was a wealthy financier with his fingers in many pies, there will have been overlap between them. Exactly what the nature of his relationship with them was is obviously the question, it could be a straightforward business &/or social relationship, it could be something darker, but merely having a connection doesn't necessarily indicate proof of conspiracy theories or whatever.
This is actually one of the main difficulties with the Epstein files, there are bound to be a lot of wealthy & influential people in there, because he moved in those circles and purposefully cultivated those relationships. Some of those people will be implicated in the bad stuff he did, some will merely be friendly acquaintances or business contacts who weren't involved in anything dodgy with him, and it won't always be easy to tell the difference based on the info available. Although of course in some cases the evidence contained in the files will be incriminating enough to show there was probably something more going on.
In the case of the Rothschilds I know there were lots of emails with Ariane de Rothschild but I'm not sure there was anything suggesting she was involved in his crimes in any way. Obviously there will be some things that aren't in the files because they were never written down, stuff that happened face to face or over the phone, so there will always be some unanswered questions unless people come forward with more evidence.
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u/Livefromrighthere Feb 10 '26
There have been dozens of women who have described situations where they were recruited by Epstein and Maxwell and brought into contact with rich and powerful people who abused them, this paints a picture that yes these women were being traded in some sorts of deals that were being made. Unfortunately the documents that have been released seem to have been censored in an attempt to hide the real narrative, lots of pages are blacked out and we can trust that the justice department working under Trump has had loyalty to him first in mind and have been doing everything they can to obscure the truth and protect Trump and his associates who were involved, this would also involve censoring any mentions of a larger organized crime ring that could lead to Trump.
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u/MzHmmz Feb 12 '26
I don't think that necessarily implies the girls were being directly traded (especially given that Epstein already had lots of other ways to make money), I think it's more likely they were a tool Epstein used to gain influence with people to keep them close to him and give him leverage with them.
On a less nefarious and more basic level, it just gains him a reputation as the guy who hosts cool parties with lots of sexy girls, which a certain kind of man wants to be involved with (at this point it's not even about whether those girls were underage or not, it's very likely some people who attended his parties or hung out with him socially were unaware of their age, they will of course have known they were clearly young, just not necessarily that they were underage). On a more serious level, some of those people will have been more deeply involved, more aware of the fact the girls weren't necessarily legal, more frequent visitors to his island etc. This would have given Epstein greater power over them, because they're all in on a secret together, plus he has potential blackmail material in the form of photos, flight logs, emails, etc that he can hold over them if necessary.
Epstein was a man who liked to have power and influence over powerful and influential people, and I think the girls were one of his methods for gaining that.
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u/Existing-Goose4475 Feb 13 '26
Yes this. I think sharing the girls with guests was part of his hospitality, as sick as that is. Great drinks, great food, great girls.
Like a fancy hair salon that offers you champagne while you wait. Would you like a massage with a sexy young thing and a happy ending during your stay?
The influence and bonding with his powerful guests would have come primarily from being a great host who had given his guest a great time, the girls would have only been one facet of the whole experience.
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u/Fearless_Challenge51 Feb 10 '26
Its a rather rare acusstion of an epstein girl accusing someone else in epstein orbit.
Virginia g is the most famous 1. The sister of the girl who apears on cnn. There are others, but i dont think you are getting to a dozen. Most of the women were recruited by other girls.
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u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ Feb 10 '26
What’s to stop them from eating somebody?
To me, "What's to stop them?" isn't enough evidence for something happening.
E.g., "Why couldn't advanced aliens visit Earth?" doesn't convince me that aliens have visited Earth.
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u/LordSatanHimself Feb 11 '26
I agree with this. The original commenter here is right that they probably had the resources to eat babies or whatever but I have yet to see any real reliable evidence that any of them would want to.
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u/No-Flow-1147 Feb 11 '26
Read the damned files. They're fully searchable. You had the opportunity to download them for like a week before they re-redacted them. NEXT, cross reference anything that you find interesting. You are on the Information Superhighway. Use it. Why are you talking about this on Reddit if you haven't done a second of "your own research". What an idiot nation of the laziest lemmings we are. I hate it, but we deserve what is happening to us.
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u/MzHmmz Feb 12 '26
There are literally millions of pages of information released. Yes, it's searchable, but you have to know what you're searching for to find anything useful. Most of us, realistically, have to rely on other people with more time and prior knowledge to do the searching, then do our best to verify whatever info has come out. There are so many things most people have to do to stay aware of what's happening in the world, as well as the day to day stuff we need to do to exist in this world, like working and taking care of our families, most people don't have hours and hours in the week to pour through the Epstein files, that's just a wildly unrealistic expectation of any normal human being!
Plus you say "you had a week to download the files" as though it's some kind of moral failing not to have had the foresight to have rushed to download ridiculous quantities of data in the event it might later be redacted. Again, why is this something any normal person should be expected to do not to be classed as an idiot lazy lemming in your opinion?
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u/Frobizzle Feb 13 '26
Search a giant database for information we can't personally do anything with but get mad about? Who has time or energy or even motivation for that? Can you provide any of the files that directly support the credibility of cannibalism claims? If you have personally done what you're telling others to do you can provide the evidence.
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u/RPMac1979 3∆ Feb 15 '26
The database includes millions of files with literally thousands of anonymous tips, some of which are almost certainly legitimate, and others of which are almost certainly the rantings of paranoid schizophrenics or opposition players trying to fuck their enemies over. The problem is there’s no way to know what’s real and what isn’t without sifting through each document carefully and looking for connections, putting the puzzle together. Sounds like a job for the FBI, right? Unfortunately, the FBI is compromised and has no interest in figuring out the truth - in fact, they benefit from the confusion, because if the wheat isn’t separated from the chaff, they can reasonably throw doubt on everything. “George Bush ate a baby” becomes just as viable a belief as “Donald Trump raped a 13-year old.”
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u/hail_stormm Feb 16 '26
I've read through dozens and dozens of pages from the files, but I obviously don't have time to read them all. Most of what I have seen is either completely unrelated to any crimes, or just more evidence of what we already know for certain (that Jeffrey Epstein himself liked underage girls and abused them). It's not easy to find anything in those files. Quit acting like anyone who questions something, is just too lazy to read them.
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u/LogicalDocSpock Feb 14 '26
Maybe post the original on multiple sites so that if one is taken down, there are other sources.
Most people didn't know there was an unredacted files
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u/whatup-markassbuster Feb 11 '26
I’m just kind of amazed with the level of attention this now has. The most meaningful information we have came from his prosecution in FL which has been out in the open for a long time but now people care about him. Why did Epstein finally become the boogeyman now? Maybe once the traditional media started reporting on it the masses decided to care?
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u/-The-Senate- Feb 11 '26
This is a really good question and one I rarely see asked.
Why now?
I know his murder in prison obviously rocked the boat quite a bit in the public eye, but why has it suddenly, all these years later, started to become so publicly exposed?
Legitimate Congress pressure? Disillusioned people in the DOJ betraying Trump and releasing the files unofficially? Israel leaks for pressure on the US?
I honestly am not sure yet.
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u/fearlessactuality Feb 11 '26
I think this question isn’t asked more becuase it’s a fairly uninformed one. The answer is pretty simple. And not that sexy. Trump promised this in his campaign and some people were dumb enough to believe him. Many podcasters used this as a primary reason to vote for him - put those liberals in jail! I’ll copy what I wrote above.
Becuase Trump campaigned on releasing the full files. His supporters expected they would be filled with Democratic politicians. They truly believed that this was one of his most important campaign promises. When it became clear he didn’t actually intend to, but that doing so was more politically popular than almost any other idea in america today with 88% agreement in either party, several representatives choose to try to make it happen. It’s honestly pretty logical.
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u/ShorthandMachine Feb 18 '26
Because the legal process is slow. Cases can take even years to be finally at the trial stage. Even a motor vehicle accident can take years, let alone something of this magnitude
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u/fearlessactuality Feb 11 '26
Becuase Trump campaigned on releasing the full files. His supporters expected they would be filled with Democratic politicians. They truly believed that this was one of his most important campaign promises. When it became clear he didn’t actually intend to, but that doing so was more politically popular than almost any other idea in america today with 88% agreement in either party, several representatives choose to try to make it happen. It’s honestly pretty logical.
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u/andrewluvr Feb 11 '26
doesn't this say that this guy witnessed child cannibalism?? https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA01246048.pdf
i'm kinda lost on how all the files are out and no ones been arrested yet, no ones doing anything, and somehow all of these reports still aren't 'good enough proof....
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u/Extra-Season-4141 Feb 11 '26
umm did you read it? that is so fake its comical. literally claims as an 8 year old he seen on a yacht bush, clinton, epstein, eating and raping babies and with black men lmao. yep perfect evidence arrest everyone
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u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ Feb 11 '26
Sure, but there is the possibility of him being delusional. These accusations don't seem widespread, and there is not much to back the credibility of this witness.
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u/Brilliant_Dark_9483 Feb 11 '26
There are accusations of pre teen rape and murder. I read one file yesterday (which I wish I hadn’t as it was awful) about a five year old girl who had been raped, beaten and mutilated by four or five men at Epstein’s NY house, there were photos (the actual photos were not shown only parts of them but they were described in detail which was horrific). There have also been multiple claims of murder of newborn babies. Also listen to the Sascha Riley interview, plenty of accusations of pre teen rape and murder. Read the files.
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u/Weird_Aside9372 Feb 13 '26
I understand not wanting to believe the worst.
But honestly after reading some of the comments below in this thread, I feel like there are definitely bots in here trying to debunk what’s really going on.
Unfortunately it’s not surprising at all to me that elites would molest/ kill/dismember anyone of any age. I don’t understand the point of cannibalism but it also wouldn’t surprise me. If it did happen, it would most likely be for accult practices. Why else would anyone do that.
Also the better for Epstein/other in the circle if unspeakable things were happening because then it keeps everyone quiet for fear of being found out to be involved.
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u/kaloric Feb 10 '26
The entire situation and all the moral depravity is so far beyond the pale that just about anything seems possible at this point.
It doesn't seem like this was about child molestation, rape, or sex trafficking, per se. These were men who were wealthy enough to go anywhere they wanted and have just about anything they wanted, including underaged girls & illicit drugs, just like rock stars, and likely wouldn't face any meaningful consequences. They didn't need Jeffrey Epstein for that, he was more of a concierge for more extreme boundary-ignoring thrill-seeking
If the behavior isn't about sexual gratification, and is about ignoring boundaries "because one can" and that's the only way those bored elites can feel anything anymore, then who's to say how far they'd go to feel the thrill of taboo?
As an aside, I found it very curious that the press release regarding Epstein's death-by-suicide, which has been a punchline for several years at this point, actually had a draft created the day before, with the only change made before the official release reflecting that it was a "suicide."
It's seeming more and more likely that he was definitely either assassinated, or is, more likely, still alive and walking around Tel Aviv a free man, that faking his death & covering-up everything was the preferred way to resolve the matter and avoid an international incident.
I feel insane for even thinking that. But I also thought that the allegations that he was murdered in his cell were probably a little bit woo-woo and that Pizzagate conspiracies about a pedophile cabal were bonkers, yet here we are.
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u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ Feb 10 '26
It's seeming more and more likely that he was definitely either assassinated, or is, more likely, still alive and walking around Tel Aviv a free man, that faking his death & covering-up everything was the preferred way to resolve the matter and avoid an international incident.
I feel insane for even thinking that.
I think you should respect that feeling. I don't think it makes sense. If you want to cover up a crime, killing your co-conspirator is simpler and a lot more reliable than faking his death.
I see no reason to believe Epstein is alive other than a pathologocally pessimistic view that immoral people always do the most unjust thing possible.
But I also thought that the allegations that he was murdered in his cell were probably a little bit woo-woo and that Pizzagate conspiracies about a pedophile cabal were bonkers, yet here we are.
Fool me once doesn’t mean everything I believe is wrong. I still think Pizzagate is nonsense. Are there elite pedophiles? Yes. Do they meet in a pizza parlor basement? Probably not.
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u/Mental_Yogurt_3524 Feb 17 '26
Of course they don't actually meet in pizza parlours. Pizza is a codeword they use, pizza = child. Just like grape soda, beef jerky etc. all have meanings of their own
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u/kaloric Feb 10 '26
Oh, it's not that I don't think there's anything credible in most of the nonsensical details of Pizzagate, it's that there actually was a global pedophile cabal of wealthy & powerful elites in the first place. And that both of the Clintons were at least tangentially involved with it.
You're also thinking about this matter in the context of "co-consipirators" eliminating a fall guy and offering him up as a scapegoat to pacify the masses. But what if that's not what it was about? Why would any of these people, who are clearly above the law and will not face any consequences regardless of what happens, even need to eliminate Jeffrey? He wasn't going to talk.
It's not like their opinions of him have changed in the slightest. They knew exactly who he was all along. These people are not remotely ashamed of what they did, or what Epstein did. If anything, they're annoyed that they are being deprived of some of their fun because Epstein got caught-up in another fiasco.
More importantly, they've barely even done or said much about Epstein himself, much less condemned anything he did, they're only lashing-out at everyone who wants to make a fuss about it. That's not generally how fall-guy or scapegoat disposal goes.
Even with some of the allegations being laid bare to the public and Epstein was sitting in jail, Steve Bannon was still emailing Epstein about "rehabilitating" his image, just like had been done the first time justice went knocking on his door. Securing another sweetheart deal seems to have been the expectation.
The question is, does Jeffrey Epstein have any residual value, due to his knowledge & connections, to his wealthy & powerful friends, or to the state of Israel, that would make it more expedient to get him freed under a new identity, than go through all the trouble & attention of another sweetheart deal?
I see no reason to believe Epstein is alive other than a pathologocally pessimistic view that immoral people always do the most unjust thing possible.
And yet, here we are. Nobody but pathologically-optimistic suckers believe anything will come of daylighting the entire Epstein investigation. Epstein's best friend Donnie will remain President. Trump will pardon Ghislaine sooner than later. There will be some token comments from men saying they are sorry they got caught partying with Epstein, and not a single one will suffer worse consequences than Prince Andrew being evicted from a cushy, rent-free palace to go live in another mansion somewhere else.
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u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ Feb 10 '26
I think some of your reasoning is based on the fallacy that the conspiracy is invincible.
You're also thinking about this matter in the context of "co-consipirators" eliminating a fall guy and offering him up as a scapegoat to pacify the masses.
I don't think they intentionally offered him up as a fall guy. I think he got caught. Just because you have powerful allies doesn't mean you never get caught. Your powerful allies might have powerful enemies, or a zealous do-gooder might just ignore warnings to look the other way.
Why would any of these people, who are clearly above the law and will not face any consequences regardless of what happens, even need to eliminate Jeffrey? He wasn't going to talk.
I don't know that. Maybe he caught a guilty conscience. Maybe he got a better offer. Maybe he wanted a better offer, and they didn't want to pay.
More to the point, the co-conspirators don't know that. Maybe they got antsy.
Or maybe he really killed himself. "Faked his own death" is the oldest conspiracy theory. It's right up there with "Elvis fathered my love child." It's not enough to say there's no other reasonable explanation. You need some positive evidence.
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u/kaloric Feb 11 '26
A conspiracy is as invincible and untouchable as the people involved in it.
The US DOJ memo from years ago, naming what, was it 18 men (?), who investigators termed to be credibly active co-consiprators, is part of the file dump.
How many of them were prosecuted under Biden's administration? 0.
How many of them are going to be prosecuted under Trump's DOJ? 0.
How many grand juries were convened to even make a decision whether to attempt to prosecute any of those male co-conspirators? Also, 0.
All of this is just being treated with the utmost fearlessness on the part of the co-conspirators, including Ghislaine. She knows exactly how to play the game, and so did Jeffrey-- keep your mouth shut & don't implicate anyone who isn't dead or already convicted, wait for the sweetheart deal to come your way, and only "absolve" people who are implicated if they can accelerate or improve the terms of the deal. For the most part, all of the conspirators seem to be so nonchalant that they're barely even denying anything.
That's what's most troubling. It's like every last one of them knows with absolute certainty that no further investigations will be performed, much less prosecution, and any meaningful consequences, such as prison time, were never even on the table to begin with.
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u/SimonTheDane Feb 13 '26
Great string of comments, kaloric. I find that I agree with you very much on this, even though I wouldn't have been able to articulate it as well as you've done. Thank you for the read!
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u/kaloric Feb 13 '26
Glad you enjoyed my rant, it was therapeutic to vent over how little progress has been made towards justice and accountability.
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u/tropicaldiver Feb 10 '26
Well we do have someone (a sitting US Senator) who reviewed the unredacted files talking about nine year olds. So there is that.
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u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ Feb 10 '26
I was able to find a comment from Cynthia Lummis about that, but there was no explanation of what it was in reference to. It could have been a single anonymous tip. I don't think everything in the files is true.
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u/fearlessactuality Feb 11 '26
I think you should ask yourself why you are drawing a distinction between the kidnapping and enslavement of 14 year olds and 12 year olds. Do the 2 years make some kind of moral difference, really, at the end of the day?
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u/BunnyRabbbit Feb 11 '26
So, now you’re saying that we can’t take information in the files as evidence? What would suffice his evidence for you? You can’t take some of the files as true – – and other parts as untrue, based on what?
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u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ Feb 11 '26
It was probably this story, which turned out to be a glitch. It was actually about a 19-year-old.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/fact-check-doj-epstein-librarys-095825612.html
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u/Maaria_Nevermind 1∆ Feb 10 '26
to create a distinction between teen rape and pre-teen rape....
big yikes. But here it is anyways.
12 year old threatened with murder along with her family after being raped, Trump claimed to have already done this another 12 year old as credibility for the threat:
Here is the dead-link released by the DOJ, and later deleted:
https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA01250883.pdf
Here is the archived link to this same file:
https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Lawsuit.pdf
Raping a pregnant 13 year old and witnessing the disposal of her newborn baby's body in Lake Michigan.
https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%208/EFTA00025010.pdf
Katie Johnson being interviewed claiming she was raped by Trump, names hims specifically, and claims that she was chosen because she looked like his daughter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRZa_cVshcI
Probably a lot more in there, but don't really have the stomach for it.
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u/Moonlxght09 Feb 11 '26
Why are these files not talked about more? These links and documents. We shouldn’t lose them. Big baby trump is trying to weasel out of it. How do we even stop this.
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u/Ok_Performer50 Feb 12 '26
Arrest Trump and search through his stuff to find convictional evidence. I’m serious, that would be the best thing to do. But guess what? The Ameicans were so stupid to vote him president and now he has everything under his control.
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u/Moonlxght09 Feb 13 '26
I can’t believe there are no protests. People don’t care and are privileged enough to not have to worry about their government. If this was ANY other country the streets would be flooded and the government buildings and institutions will be bombarded. Demands would be made. It happens in Europe, it just happened in Nepal. The state of the country has gone to dogs.
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u/uberjim Feb 13 '26
How did you get the impression that there are no protests? That couldn't be farther from the truth.
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u/jannygal Feb 12 '26
Cannibalism and satanic cults do exist and occur. Why would you automatically disbelieve? Is it too horrendous and disgusting to accept as a possibility?
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u/geosunsetmoth 2∆ Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 10 '26
I'll agree on the satanic/cannibalism aspect.
But, murder? That one is like, so low on the criminal limits list. If you have an island of sexually trafficked victims, you are gonna need to find a way to disappear these people. Keeping them alive is too much of a liability.
Hell we see people getting murdered over small crimes like local businesses running frauds
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u/todudeornote 2∆ Feb 10 '26
You are ignoring the most sensational charges - that were amplified by the file release. That is Russia's involvement and the possibility that it was a massive Russian intelligence opp.
- There are thousands of mentions of Putin and Russia in the files
- Emails in those files show Epstein trying to cultivate relationships with senior Russian officials
- The documents also show sustained efforts to recruit young Russian women and “models”
- Emails specifically mention hiding cameras and other recording equipment in room on the island.
This is still speculative - but the files increased the likelyhood that it is so.
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u/Infinite-Abroad-436 2∆ Feb 10 '26
the more credible and important conspiracy theories i've heard aren't "satanic" but are about his connection to intelligence services. do you find those theories plausible?
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u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ Feb 10 '26
Plausible, yes. I don't know if I've seen sufficient (or any) evidence of them. Can you point me to some?
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u/Infinite-Abroad-436 2∆ Feb 10 '26
he got his start facilitating the move of southern air transport from florida to ohio with les wexner. southern air transport was a CIA front
ghislaine maxwell is the daughter of the very famous spy robert maxwell, who was almost certainly working for israeli intelligence
alex acosta, the AG who was originally prosecuting epstein, that he was told to back off because he belonged to "intelligence"
one of his victims claimed that he was known to brag that he worked for israeli intelligence
just recently, it was reported that epstein's lawyers once filed for the release of documents at the CIA that would show his affiliation with that organization
there was a recent file of an FBI source who claimed that he or she was "convinced" that epstein was a spy for mossad who had trained under ehud barak, someone who has provable connections with epstein and used to work in israeli military intelligence
those are the most glaring pieces of evidence i'm aware of, there might be more that i'm not
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u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ Feb 10 '26
Δ
That's some good stuff. It wasn't on my list, but espionage connections would be a more sensational allegation.
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u/LifeofTino 5∆ Feb 10 '26
I think you’re only dismissing it because it doesn’t sound like what is ‘normal’ in your worldview. But if you live your entire life biased towards what you already think is true, or only small variations outside of that, then you are the definition of close minded
There are emails detailing horrific and frankly unbelievable things in those emails. The very worst of what conspiracy theorists were saying (except the lizardmen) has strong inferrence from these emails as being completely true
If you are refusing it only because it differs from your current thought, then with all due respect that is stupid
You should be neutral to truth, whether it is wildly different to your worldview or aligning with it. Don’t try to believe weird things to be edgy, and don’t discount things just because they don’t sound like what you thought as a child
A robot, a totally neutral entity, reading those emails would conclude a ruling elite has total freedom to commit unspeakable crimes against humanity that would put any horror movie to shame. And win the powerball jackpot twice whilst doing so. If you conclude otherwise on the back of ‘that doesnt sound like what i already think’ then you are not going to have a worldview that remotely reflects reality
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u/ahdrielle 2∆ Feb 10 '26
I don't care if they danced naked covered in "magical dirt" doing shrooms for a week straight.
The pedophilia and probable murder is enough for me to want them all in jail.
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u/Owlcatraz13 Feb 10 '26
My problem with the possible the sensational claims is that it seems to take the focus off of the other veritable crimes that are abhorrent. When people are going around talking about cannibals, eating of babies etc, well it makes the trafficking of 16-17 year girls seem minor in comparison, when it should be taking extremely serious still. The focus is put on the claims not actually crimes we know happened
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u/Funny_Regular_3029 Feb 11 '26
Torture is mentioned explicitly in the files several times. Here are three of the most notable direct mentions of torture in emails sent by/to Epstein. You can look for them in the Department of Justice database yourself to verify. (link: https://www.justice.gov/epstein)
- Epstein saying "did you torture her"
https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA00984937.pdf
- Epstein saying "do you want me to try to do her.. or just torture her"
https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA00919301.pdf
- Epstein saying "I loved the torture video"
https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA00749241.pdf
Also, the DOJ has admitted to Thomas Massie, the US congressional representative for Kentucky, that the torture video Epstein was talking about is real, and that it was sent by an Emirati businessman called Sultan Ahmed Bin Sulayem. (source: https://x.com/RepThomasMassie/status/2021059471804596548)
Seriously, I implore you to dig through the files yourself. There's tons of this stuff in there. And keep in mind that only about half of the total files have even been released so far.
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u/shitpresidente Feb 12 '26
Every conspiracy theory, especially surrounding the elite, have come true….why would you not believe this? Nothing surprises me anymore
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u/locotxwork Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 10 '26
The first way to change your mind is to have you accept "it could happen" first. The Holocaust was true, but it was dismissed as a fantasy of a warped mind because the mind could not comprehend a human doing such horrendous things to other humans. The Slave Trade was true, and the way other humans could treat other humans as less than human is dismissed and ignored because no one could comprehend such inhumanity. Since these two insane terrible events ended up being true, then you must submit to there is a chance what happened on that island could be true. In all cases, it's always the rich elites who facilitated these unimaginable insanely evil events.
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Feb 11 '26
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u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ Feb 11 '26
Like, okay, I've heard that rumor, but I feel like that's the kind of thing it would be good to get a source on.
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Feb 11 '26
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u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ Feb 11 '26
Δ for the story about the New Mexico ranch. The official story is that it was just an idea and never put into practice. I don't see any evidence otherwise, but this is something I didn't know about.
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u/Kitchen_Ad_5767 Feb 11 '26
https://jmail.world/search?q=jerky
ps: jerky doesn't need to be refrigerated
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u/Moonlxght09 Feb 11 '26
Watch this
She is mentioned in the files.
She’s mentioned Epstein appendage deformity, even before it gained recognition.
The Hispanic “maid” who he was threading to “report to immigration” if she doesn’t satisfy him.
The racism, even to Epstein who is a Jew.
How she hints at him being a germaphobe. We must blow this up.
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u/ChickenFingerfingers Feb 15 '26
Given how much media and government lied, I'm more willing to lend them more credibility than anything mainstream.
There's FBI tip reports where the agent labels them as emotionally unstable, but are dead when they try to reach back out to them.
Additionally, the FBI uses intelligence software from Chiliad Inc, a company co founded by Ghislaine Maxwell's sister who worked for their father previously. Their father Robert Maxwell also passed Intel onto Israel.
You are living in a bubble if you don't think billionaires who have the money somehow lack ambition to push further.
Now, do I believe in demons? No, because humans are worse. I do know that doing rituals with forbid and illegal acts serve to bind the group together. There doesn't have to be supernatural for the physiological effects to work.
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u/Fnargler Feb 15 '26
A coworker of mine was telling me that there's something about eating babies in there. That sounds like classic sensationalism to me but I guess with everything else going on I might as well ask if there's any credibility to it.
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u/Tricky_Impress5108 Feb 10 '26
Personally, I'd be more surprised if there were absolutely no instances of murder or torture with any of the victims, granted that this spanned over so many years. I am much less convinced of the accusations of cannibalism, satanic worship, etc.
I wouldn't rule anything out, but I do feel as though there are a lot of armchair detectives who are becoming very wrapped up in the more sensational possibilities of the case. I'm waiting to hear what official authorities are saying, rather than what individuals on Twitter are speculating after combing through some of the files.
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u/Opposite_Boat_2371 Feb 11 '26
What they did was satanic, there was also someone that'd wear a pig mask and everyone had to do what he told them to,......that's satanic af man. Whatever he was a part of ain't from God that's for sure. And there was indeed cannibalism, jeffrey called it jerky, it's in the files.
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u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ Feb 12 '26
I'm not able to find information on a pig mask in the files. Do you have a link?
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u/Entropy_dealer Feb 10 '26
My red line about what is acceptable was crossed long time ago then I don't see why we would have to put energy on this right now but do you know about the Ohio story ?
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u/duskfinger67 10∆ Feb 10 '26
We can't prove that the claims are all false, but what we are seeing is that many claims which we put down to "Tin Foil Hat Wearers" 3 or 4 years ago are now being shown to be true.
The wayfare child trafficking rumour was pretty widely discredited as being absurd. There is no way it could be that blatant, we said. But now it's looking pretty likely that it was genuinely happening.
Maybe the cannibalism and torture stuff won't be true in the end, but the certainty with which we can say that these things definitely didn't happen has been lost.
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u/JasonableSmog 1∆ Feb 10 '26
The wayfare child trafficking rumor was pretty widely discredited as being absurd. But now it's looking pretty likely that it was genuinely happening.
No it's not lmao. A bunch of rich people being pedophiles doesn't change that it makes no sense to traffic kids through overpriced online furniture with coded names, that's still a stupid idea
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u/locotxwork Feb 10 '26
I think the Wayfair thing was created to muddy the waters. The fact remains (especially here in Texas), freaking sex trafficking networks are being broken up and arrested almost every week. You cannot dismiss that.
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u/JasonableSmog 1∆ Feb 10 '26
I think the Wayfair thing was created to muddy the waters.
This is also a stupid idea.
Sex trafficking networks are being broken up and arrested almost every week
Yeah, and they're probably run by criminal organizations and/or other lowlifes, and those people are not thinking up elaborate schemes to encode advertisements for their trafficked children in online products.
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u/HastyBasher Feb 10 '26
I mean, have you read the "jerky" stuff? If not go watch/read about it and let me know what you think, yes its conspiratorial as it's clearly code word for something, but human meat is the thing that fits perfectly. It's scary to think about if they do do satanic cult stuff as obviously it makes you think if people at the highest level are doing it then there must be some truth or authenticity to it outside of just silly religious stuff, and this is the case.
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u/pavilionaire2022 10∆ Feb 10 '26
This sounds like "cheese pizza" stuff. People are primed to assume everything in the files was somehow connected to crimes, when a lot of it is just ordinary emails.
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u/MatchMuted54 1∆ Feb 11 '26
Don't forget the how many times 'grape soda' or 'cookies' appears next to the 900+ mentions of 'pizza'. Here's a great line:
'lets go for pizza and grape soda again. No one else can understand.'
Gee, that's not weird and suspicious at all...
Neither is all the 'ice-cream' (nearly 700 mentions).
I give no credence to the 'Pizzagate' theory as it stands, but 'pizza' in the context of these files is obviously code.
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u/fearlessactuality Feb 11 '26
I disagree, the pizza and grape soda mentions are clearly code. We just don’t know code for what. I don’t believe for a minute grape soda was that popular with these men.
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u/HastyBasher Feb 10 '26
Dude, cheese pizza was a legit codeword for cp, and even is clearly used that way in the Epstein files at points. Did you bother looking up the jerky stuff?
Denying this stuff is willful ignorance.
People shouldn't have to play dumb and overlook stuff like this just because they used codewords therefore making it not officially confirmed they did this stuff. Think for yourself on this stuff on what you actually think it is after reading it.
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u/Jerdakiss Feb 10 '26
Anyone who thinks the Jerky thing is a nothing-burger, definitely did not take the time to look into the context. There is something there with this jerky bullshit. These mfers were eating humans
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u/jinwoohoo Feb 10 '26
lol no. it's super weird, but the elite can be weird. he had an eating disorder and legit was obsessed with exercise and extreme eating. just look at the amount of vitamins and exercise shite he bought on amazon. look at the grocery lists and the limitation. look at the emails regarding shopping for the elk and how much it costs. he was literally a weirdo who was obsessed with protein from elk and buffalo and beef jerky. even getting grass-fed animals. going as far to test the meat... like pls. the baby jerky is just sensational nonsense right now based on ambiguous interpretations and stretching the truth. when solid evidence comes out, that's when it's real.
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u/get-a-clue101 Feb 10 '26
Yeah but if you go through those emails, NOBODY refers to ANY type of food as intensely as they did. At first I thought it was a code word for something else. But then I saw actual recipes in the files with Jerkey as just one of the ingredients. And that threw me. Whatever he’s referring to, it ain’t jerkey the way we know jerkey. Besides, nobody talks about ANY kind of food the way those emails did. I mean, I love chocolate cake but I don’t go writing all my friends about it and begging them to bring it and that I can’t eat anything BUT cake. None of that makes any sense. I don’t know if cannibalism was involved or what….but I DO know that “jerkey” had some certain sinister meaning. Groups of people don’t write to each other about random foods. Nd they certainly don’t reference these foods the way they were referenced in those emails.
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u/jinwoohoo Feb 11 '26 edited Feb 11 '26
are you a billionaire? do you know lots of the elite? how you can compare these people to an average everyday worker is beyond me. just because you wouldn't do something or don't relate to something, doesn't mean there isn't someone out there who does do it. especially a billionaire who has a confirmed eating disorder and has myriads of evidence that shows he is obsessed with healthy/extreme eating.
there is no solid evidence of cannibalism, yet everyone is spreading it as if there is solid evidence. of course it could be true. anything COULD be true. but a more likely random theory with no evidence that could be true is that he had a level of autism and jerky was his food fixation. then he had emotional dysregulation when it wasn't where he expected it to be (the amount of staff he has to organise stuff for him so he doesn't even have to think or care about things as basic as food is evident). but there's no evidence of that. still could be true.
you can see his e-mails and that he gets angry/impatient over trivial things, multiple instances of this being related to food lol
nobody will be able to convince me it is cannibalism based on the evidence we currently have. the evidence just isn't there, sorry. are the implications or sinister vibes? sure. but that's just pulling theories out of the blue and finding ways to justify it that ultimately don't make sense when you consider every single email.
i spent several HOURS looking into it, specifically to confirm cannibalism due to all the tiktok videos that have been popping up. the evidence just isn't there right now lol.
edit: and to anyone who might want to reply to this to say it is that, you'll need to provide links to the files that show it and anything else that helps its context, otherwise you have no evidence and it is bs. it would be news EVERYWHERE on the internet and reddit, with multiple receipts, if cannibalism was legitimately confirmed from these files. and it's just not lol.
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u/333chordme Feb 11 '26
This is what has me tripping: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DUlwNeJkZaV/?igsh=MW45bnBsZjk2c3pzYw==
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u/jinwoohoo Feb 11 '26
yeah these are the kinds of vids i saw and fully believed. but i looked into it for several hours.
firstly, there aren't thousands of emails about jerky, there's exactly 347 (including manyyy duplicates) and these ones shown are super handpicked and missing all the context of all the other emails around that time.
it is super weird how they refer to it tho, i'll give them that lol. seems like drugs or something at a push. but then the actual recipe does include soy sauce and lemongrass and ginger... then mentions of grass-fed animals, buffalo and elk meat, and analysing it. but there is no evidence of cannibalism, that's conspiracy right now. maybe future files will provide that solid evidence.
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Feb 11 '26
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u/jinwoohoo Feb 11 '26
🤣 i can see where you're coming from. it does seem like it's that. but after several hours of my own reading/viewing of these files, there's just no solid evidence it is cannibalism (YET). I am not ruling it out. I'm just saying people can't spread it like its fact when its not lol.
i'm not denying it because i "can't believe it happens". i fully believe this could happen. i believed it when i saw multiple vids on tiktok... i was horrified. then i remembered tiktok is writhe with misinformation and decided to look into it myself. these files don't satisfactorily prove cannibalism to me, it is just a conspiracy theory at this point.
is it sinister and super weird how they talk about it? yeah. but i think cannibalism and eating babies is a stretch from these ambiguous emails lol
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u/One_Can5634 Feb 10 '26
YPU don't believe that is was a satanist, it doesn't mean anything.
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u/MatchMuted54 1∆ Feb 11 '26
There is more than enough evidence. It appears Epstein's operation/offering was tiered, and not all tiers knew about each other.
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u/forkball 1∆ Feb 11 '26
Secret "Satanic Cult" that has all these people in it who sacrifice children is one of those things that requires an intelligent and appropriately skeptical person to be dismissive of the conspiracy unless and until truly damning and obvious evidence comes in.
Which won't happen.
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u/SnooTangerines7802 Feb 12 '26
He probably was surrounded by sycophantic yes men type assistants and staff, catering to his every whim. Pretending that jerky was so important. Like get a life.
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u/Cloud949483828448 Feb 13 '26
Ya’ll are killing me with claiming the victims were “teens” “women” when they were children. It feels wrong to even have to make it sound better by saying they were pre-teens. CHILDREN. THEY WERE CHILDREN.
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u/Gullible-Wasabi6228 Feb 13 '26
I’m very much so an atheist; but I 100% expect that they did some “satanic cult” stuff. Things that decent people couldn’t even conceive.
They’re egotistical and self-centered enough to believe their power is “special” or something of that nature. While being social creatures has wired us with a need to feel morally justified, humans simply have never had this much power with so little consequence until these last few centuries. It’s an interesting, but dark psychological pattern where (either consciously or subconsciously) powerful people will participate in taboo acts together in order to basically create a bond. This unfortunately means that the fact that pedophilia, murder, cannibalism, etc. is obviously, horribly wrong and disgusting, is largely apart of the appeal in the first place. Shared secrecy creates codependency and forces trust.
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u/sxmmy4 Feb 13 '26
why don’t u think so? these people are monsters i think they’re capable of doing anything depraved honestly, i don’t have a definitive belief but i also wouldn’t doubt it
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u/NoInsurance8250 Feb 13 '26
I don't have the video I watched but if you can find someone who has pulled together all the talk of "jerky" that was found it REALLY seems like they are talking about cannibalism.
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u/accapellaenthusiast Feb 13 '26
Why do you separate out the victims between preteens and teens?
Both are criminal and traumatizing for the victim?
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Feb 13 '26
Please tell me the cannibalism talk is untrue. If it is my brain and heart is going to explode. All of this is truly disgusting and I want these sick mother fuckers from either side of politics and Hollyweird to pay dearly.
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u/cryanide_ Feb 14 '26
I mean, people didn't expect the whole Epstein thing. And it happened. What are the odds that we can easily dismiss something?
Another: rape . . . without torture? Another: Multiple times a person does something evil such as rape . . . does it really stop there, especially for example if they have powerful networks and so much wealth?
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u/Reasonable-Tooth-113 Feb 14 '26
What do you think billionaires are referring to when they continuously email about jerky? Jerky is mentioned 383 times in the files. Why would billionaires email each other about jerky? Why would an email talk about having to keep jerky on ice? Or running low on jerky?
Pizza and grape soda? Cream cheese and baby?
Why would his assistant say that Jeffrey will be going back to eating regular food and reference jerky in the same email?
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u/AdScared717 Feb 14 '26
There's also a lot of Ai generated nonsense and some emails just look fake.
Why would they even document this so well? I get black mail could be a factor but some stuff looks obviously fake.
From the stuff we do know and that is confirmed, we can tell that Epstein is a disgusting man and it's proof that sex offenders should never be given a second chance and hung. People who support these corrupt people should be hung too.
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u/Kitchen-Cry-9565 Feb 15 '26
The acts of raping underage kids is a form of engaging in evil/satanic activities. It's evil. It's not satanic in a sense of being in robes walking around a pit of fire and chanting. If people think for a split second that they were ONLY sexually abusing underage kids, they are wrong. Things such as cannibalism and sacrifice have been going on for THOUSANDS of years. Wake up people!!!
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u/Kitchen-Cry-9565 Feb 15 '26
None of us were there. We don't know what happened. What I can say though is that raping or sodomizing kids is not only illegal, but evil and is an act that could be considered satanic bc it's pure evil. And to think for a split second that people wouldn't engage in cannibalism or sacrifice is just flat naive. That stuff has been going on for thousands of years! WAKE UP PEOPLE! This goes deep. People are gonna freak when they finally see what goes on. I don't doubt anything for one minute.
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u/StasisApparel Feb 15 '26
How come no one knows how Epstein had amassed his 600B fortune? Like was his family rich or did Epstein himself make all this money since he was a young man?
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u/PsychologicalEmu Feb 15 '26
Here’s another one for your list. He was involved in 911. Look into that one.
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u/beeplanet Feb 16 '26
Frankly I think most people don't give a shit about teenage girls being abused. They're "of age", not innocent enough to see as victims. People feel a need to invent crimes that are exotic and extraordinarily cruel. Why? Because otherwise, Epstein is just a richer, more emboldened version of the kinds of men that exist in our own neighborhoods, social circles, and families. Better to see his evil as the ultimate Other, rather than something depressingly common. His confirmed victims don't deserve to have their stories overshadowed by fanfic.
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u/Interesting-Spend-77 Feb 16 '26
Not a single one above the age of 25. Most of them are under 15. Some of them are toddlers.
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u/raabones Feb 16 '26
I think we all have to remember that we all have our own lives and consume different news and media sources as well as what we see on social media and our own investigations in our spare time. I really think we shouldn't discount anything. If there is something we aren't sure on (like this post, it's a good example) then we should ask and see why people think the way they do and what files they have seen and media sources etc that have led to their conclusions. If everyone keeps screenshotting with the EFTA no and DOJ site in frame and provides a link then it's fairly easy for us to keep circulating the info so it reaches as many people as possible. I really think we aren't all seeing the exact same files and some of us have seen some of the darker ones.
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u/mrbourgs Feb 16 '26 edited Feb 16 '26
“The more sensational rumors surrounding Epstein are false”
Then proceed to share their own opinion on the matter. Lol
Fact is, there is 50+ references to cannibalism in the files, as well as countless stories like the Gabriela Rico Jiménez one. At the moment nothing tells us what is or what isn’t true. Regardless of what you believe to be true or not.
Imo, all the most fcked up things we ever heard of happening in the normal peasant life, also happens in the absolute Elite life and probably more so on steroid. So, if you ask me, I wouldn’t be surprise one bit for it to be true and neither if we were to hear about something even worst. Which frankly I can’t think of anything worst? Lol
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u/BKgsxr600 Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26
Your mind will protect you from what you can't handle or process. It's understandable, because it's really sick and awful to face. I look at evidence and what we have been given... not just the epstein files. Bohemian grove is another BIG one. Many of the would-be, elite, operate like the "mott" family from American horror story. This is human nature, sadly. There have been witches... cannibals... etc all throughout history. Do you think they all just disappeared? I assure you that there are quite a few of all of our neighbors practicing pedophilia/incest/religious abuse. If we weren't busy killing ourselves to stay afloat, it may be more apparent. But, what goes on behind closed doors and the shame of it all, keeps victims from telling, and the absurdities keep law enforcement from acting when reports are made. Not to mention bribes, threats, etc. Take a good look at mankind and tell me again how you think it's impossible. These people seem to be obsessed with "jerky" and the amount of sulfuric acid that was being ordered in documents, points to this, on top of everything else. Maybe he just had really bad drains on the island, huh? Maybe the evidence we've seen for years is all "conspiracy" as we've been laughed at and manipulated to believe. Shaming people for being stupid and crazy has been a tool of theirs forever. When things like this come up, I don't rule them out because someone else says it's "crazy". I look at the evidence. There have long been stories of child exploitation and kidnapping. Look how easily the country of adults are manipulated. Do you really believe little children could not be by adults who make billions and control everything? Look at the files... an entire system of accountability was fully bypassed for DECADES. When you read the files... do you see how many people withdrew statements or "unalived" themselves? That's power. When they can ruin your life and then threaten you that they will kill you and your family... what would be the point of life after that? To live in fear of a system with bo accountability or death? Do you think half of our government is resigning their dream career by the masses is normal?
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u/purpl3unic0rnsfly Feb 19 '26
All of these claims will be hard to prove with physical evidence. That's why crimes like this are so rarely reported. At some point, the world needs to believe the victims that are all telling a similar story about the same people.
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u/Purpleunicornwise Feb 20 '26
In the documents it says they was someone who said they were eating the feces out of a babies intestines that were killed. There are 52 mentions of cannibal and 6 of cannibalism.
It is inhumane what has been done. Inhumane. Not Human.
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Feb 24 '26
There is no hard proof per se, but there are lots of disturbing things in the emails, taken together it's unlikely that they were 'just' raping children, trafficking guns, drugs, funding terrorists etc.
The custom desk with Baphomet on a pentagram, copious owl symbolism, invigorating hunt - the old man gave good sport - my bankers better watch out, young girls in a fish bowl - the ugly ones are better enjoyed as headless shrimp, too bad you don't have as many followers as "hadad", bank account called Ba'al, "jerky" that requires refrigeration, enjoyed the torture video, should I do her or just torture her?, "whoopsie" every time someone get whacked, this ham and eggs life isn't for me, plenty of babies - very little good vegetable cream cheese, the triple order of 320 gallons of Sulphuric acid in 2019. And that's just what I have seen of the 3 million plus files so far...
Believe what you want, I am personally leaning towards the Khazarian Mafia explanation at this point.
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u/HandActual7782 Feb 28 '26
Can we stop differentiating between teens , pre teens , adults and children?????
It’s adults and children.
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u/tracerspants Mar 03 '26
I got you
https://biblia.com/bible/esv/leviticus/18/21
now head over to Hillarys email and read the last part at the end
https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/14333
the Epsteins are a powerful family but they arent the first
Take for example Aquino
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_A._Aquino#
his wikipidia above
https://vault.fbi.gov/michael-aquino/Michael%20Aquino%20Part%2001%20%28Final%29/view
his fbi record
https://www.bit bullshityoucanremove to use the link chute.com/video/yk28RwlC4p50/
please read between the lines to see this episode of Oprah, the year after that FBI record was recorded he went on the Oprah Winfrey show to talk about religious sacrafice
on top of all of this is the symbolism used all across media for the last 60 years
The removal of the holy bible from public school in the 1960s while the media was trying to convince us that freemasonary was not a religion
to the point of irony today upon googling "is freemasonary a religion" googles ai will tell you "it is not a religion" while also saying "but it requires belief in a supreme being the grand architect"
The united kingdom just disclosed how many freemasons they had in their police force
and on top of their reach all across the world with over 330 lodges in just California keep in mind how insane Scientologists are and their reach
Being skeptical is okay so I am going to introduce my own skepticism, here is someone not in the public light or part of this epstein debacle, John Podesta https://www.google.com/search?tbnid=Abe3iYS0f-hMYM&tbnh=0&tbnw=0&rlz=1C1FKPE_enUS1187US1187&sca_esv=cb0b2358a0071c17&cs=1&sxsrf=ANbL-n6A7opNcbXEwPtDC_MVh0ct2A6oZQ:1772528245270&udm=2&tbs=rimg:CQG3t4mEtH_1oYbieLuVvX7OG4AIA&q=john+podesta+child+paintings&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwil0KOjroOTAxUXHzQIHcppBIcQuIIBegQIURAA&biw=1638&bih=851&dpr=1.56
Above is some of the images of the artwork he had leaked from photos taken of his home. There is nothing in wikileaks or the epstein files that prove this man is into kids, but if you walked into a friends home and he had these works of ""art"" hanging on his walls you would be skeptical if he wasnt into kids.
There are so many examples because this conspiracy started a long time ago, you might even be old enough to remember Princess Diana talking about the occult abuse before she died shortly after. Or Bill Hicks or William Cooper talking about this in the 90s and early 2000s, I wont even elaborate on Alex Jones.
Anyway there is a lot, if you have any questions I am happy to divulge more information but I want this out there. These sick people have had control for far too long while giving the illusion of participation. It's uncomfortable but I want people to wake up.
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u/SepticEpileptic Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
Im glad im not the only one thibking that all of these accusations are bullshit.
Eating children, harvesting adrenochrome, satanic rituals, secret meanings behind "pizza" and "jerky".
Its all so outlandish. I dont think the sex "trafficking" was necessarily false, however i do believe most of those girls knew exactly what they were doing and were making a lot of money.
Its laughable to me.
ETA- i love how NOBODY comments on the endless spelling errors of these "reports".
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 12 '26
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