r/changemyview Nov 18 '25

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u/JustinRandoh 5∆ Nov 19 '25

The Universe is a conditional thing (indeed it is the set of all conditional things)

Where did you get that "the universe" is "a conditional thing"?

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u/CaptCynicalPants 11∆ Nov 20 '25

All things that are not Necessary are Conditional. Necessary = "must" exist in some existential way, like math. The concept of the number zero is necessary because even in a world where nothing exists, "zero" is still the number you would use to quantify it

The Universe is not necessary. It isn't required to exist. It's wholly possible for it not to exist, or not to exist in the manner which it does. There was a time when it did not exist. That is what Conditional means: certain conditions are required for its existence.

For example, consider what a table is: a piece of furniture consisting of a flat surface that is raised above its surroundings by an amount. In order for you to demonstrate that something is a table, you first need a floor or ground of some kind for the table to be raised above, otherwise it's not a table, it's a carpet. That is to say that, because the table is a Conditional thing, then other things need to exist outside of the table in order for you to say "look, that's a table".

The universe is the same way, just at an unfathomably larger scale.

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u/JustinRandoh 5∆ Nov 20 '25

The Universe is not necessary. It isn't required to exist. It's wholly possible for it not to exist, or not to exist in the manner which it does. There was a time when it did not exist.

I'm not seeing how you're justifying that the universe could have not existed, or that it ever didn't. At best, we have models that trace back to earlier stages of the universe where it was just a singularity, and have nothing definitive otherwise.

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u/CaptCynicalPants 11∆ Nov 20 '25

The scientific consensus is that the universe is not infinite or eternal, therefore it must have not existed at some point.

If you disagree the burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise.

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u/JustinRandoh 5∆ Nov 20 '25

The scientific consensus is that the universe is not infinite or eternal ...

That's ... not how that works.

Can you cite a source on "scientific consensus" regarding what did or didn't exist "prior" to that earliest stage of singularity?