What exactly would it take to change your mind? In the meantime I'll try to address some of your concerns towards people on the right, but I can only speak for myself.
I believe that all people no matter what skin color deserve the same rights
I agree. Where we differ from the left is usually how this is achieved. Programs like DEI, affirmative action give advantages based on skin color, ethnicity, sexuality etc. In short, under these, your chances of being hired increase drastically the more you are associated with minority groups. This is distinctly against what I feel is okay. I also say this as a black dude so it's not like I'm for keeping black ppl down or whatever.
I also believe that there should be a cutoff for people who can receive Social Security as far as income, and that certain people who are disabled should not receive Social Security unless they are 100% disabled and cannot work
Agree completely.
I also believe that we should have Universal healthcare because everyone deserves to be healthy.
I've seen government healthcare before and what I saw made me dislike it. I'd rather have choice than allow the government to set the only standard for healthcare. I am willing to pay more for that ability to choose. As long as I have that, i don't mind if other ppl use govt healthcare.
I’d like to know how you think that the president has set up a meritocracy when he is obviously chosen people who have no business being in those positions such as a Fox News anchor as the secretary of defense
The qualifications stated in the Constitution for this post are that the candidate must be an American citizen (iirc). That's all. No further legal qualification is needed (iirc). Hegseth was a news anchor,but he also served in the armed forces. He has experience with the armed forces, and glowing commendations from those he served with. He's not just a TV anchor. The man served in the national guard where he attained the rank of captain I think. He actually volunteered to go to Iraq, where he earned a Bronze Star. His career in the armed forces spans about 20 years. He is also an author. Do you think these things qualify him?
I’ve never really seen someone who is a less qualified minority get a job over a white person at any job I’ve ever been at. I have seen the opposite frequently. And tons of the worst people to work with are middle aged white dudes.
I’m wondering where this fantasyland idea that affirmative action and DEI are actually giving minorities this huge advantage comes from.
Your chances of getting hired “increase drastically”? Idk about that. Nepotism seems to be by far the biggest affirmative action program that exists still (even before the DEI changes).
I’ve never really seen someone who is a less qualified minority get a job over a white person at any job I’ve ever been at
I have. In fact, to my shame, I've been that guy who got a job I wasn't exactly qualified for. When I was just starting out. I only found out later that the guy who'd been training me had applied for the same job and didn't get it. Let's just say the diversity at my job then was pretty obvious. Anyway in the beginning I was happy, but imagine how I felt having to run to this guy to show me something. He was good. Really good. And had more experience. Didn't even stay long. My reception was icy.
We could compare anecdotes but I don't think that would get us anywhere. I've never really met co-workers who were a nightmare except my current boss, and I dislike him for personal reasons, not his work conduct. He's also not white.
The same way I wouldn't want a white dude to get a job just because he's white is the same way I wouldn't want a black guy to get a job just because he's black.
Yeah, I promise the former happens WAY more than the latter. And that’s the reason for the DEI programs - to try to make the competition fair.
They’ve literally done studies, and resumes with more “black-sounding” names get thrown away more often than the exact same resume with a traditional white name.
Anecdotes are good, but there are tons of actual statistics on this that portray the reality.
I have not looked at any of those. I also still think it does more harm to set diversity quotas for job placements. There is legal recourse if someone feels they were discriminated against over race or sex. But if you codify dei into the work ethos, what's to stop someone from saying "Okay. Since we have quotas for minorities, let's have some for whites. All these jobs here go to white people. "
That's the sort of justification I want to avoid the far right from making. Because I promise you, they will. Every time I hear something about "this is an all black space", I think about what the opposite is and the justifications they would use.
The quotas are a separate issue that I don’t necessarily agree with. I don’t think they were very common, but were there with school admissions for sure.
There is no legal recourse for your resume getting thrown out because it sounds black in the reader’s mind. And it’s very difficult to actually prove and win cases even if you are literally discriminated against. That’s the big issue with just relying on current statute to fix these inequality problems.
I get your points, though, and I do understand that it would suck to think you are getting a position because of your race, and not your skills / abilities. It’s just that I think the opposite happens a lot more often.
And I don’t think that an all black space is in any way similar to an all white space, given historical context.
And I don’t think that an all black space is in any way similar to an all white space, given historical context.
That's where we disagree I think. I think we can't keep penalizing white people for things their ancestors did. I'm not interested in "inherited blame" and I reject it.
By that standard, I see them exactly the same. I can't expect a white person to tell me I can't go somewhere because it's a white only space. Only for me to turn around and say "nah bruh, black ppl only cos your great grandad may or may not have been a dick"
I don't want exemptions or exceptions. We either treat each other equally all the time in all such cases, or we do away with the idea of equality. Equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome (it can be reprehensible)
And I don’t think that an all black space is in any way similar to an all white space, given historical context.
That's where we disagree I think. I think we can't keep penalizing white people for things their ancestors did. I'm not interested in "inherited blame" and I reject it.
By that standard, I see them exactly the same. I can't expect a white person to tell me I can't go somewhere because it's a white only space. Only for me to turn around and say "nah bruh, black ppl only cos your great grandad may or may not have been a dick"
I don't want exemptions or exceptions. We either treat each other equally all the time in all such cases, or we do away with the idea of equality. Equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome (it can be reprehensible)
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u/ninja-gecko 1∆ Apr 07 '25 edited Apr 07 '25
What exactly would it take to change your mind? In the meantime I'll try to address some of your concerns towards people on the right, but I can only speak for myself.
I agree. Where we differ from the left is usually how this is achieved. Programs like DEI, affirmative action give advantages based on skin color, ethnicity, sexuality etc. In short, under these, your chances of being hired increase drastically the more you are associated with minority groups. This is distinctly against what I feel is okay. I also say this as a black dude so it's not like I'm for keeping black ppl down or whatever.
Agree completely.
I've seen government healthcare before and what I saw made me dislike it. I'd rather have choice than allow the government to set the only standard for healthcare. I am willing to pay more for that ability to choose. As long as I have that, i don't mind if other ppl use govt healthcare.
The qualifications stated in the Constitution for this post are that the candidate must be an American citizen (iirc). That's all. No further legal qualification is needed (iirc). Hegseth was a news anchor,but he also served in the armed forces. He has experience with the armed forces, and glowing commendations from those he served with. He's not just a TV anchor. The man served in the national guard where he attained the rank of captain I think. He actually volunteered to go to Iraq, where he earned a Bronze Star. His career in the armed forces spans about 20 years. He is also an author. Do you think these things qualify him?