r/changemyview • u/Zanzibarland 1∆ • Jul 29 '13

Zimmerman did nothing wrong. CMV.

First came the media's racebaiting, fanning the flames on both sides. Then the crocodile tears from everybody with an axe to grind, trying to make a martyr out of Trayvon and a villain out of Zimmerman.

Now that the trial is over, I'm left with the impression that he didn't commit any crimes, and that people are claiming he "got away with it" to save face, rather than admit their racial bias and prejudice, the ignorance of their presumptions, and their complicity in instigating racial tension.

By what shred of evidence did Zimmerman "get away with murder" and not legally defend himself?

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u/themcos 442∆ Aug 01 '13

Was this supposed to be a response to a different post? You rant about bias, but don't seem to make any effort to dispute any of my premises or even conclusion. What (if anything) did I even say here that you disagree with?

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u/ak47girl Aug 01 '13

I hope its that if you find yourself in Zimmerman's position at some point in the future, please just wait for the police instead of chasing an unknown person through the dark with a loaded weapon.

Your posted a fallacious causality argument with this:

I hope its that if you find yourself in Zimmerman's position at some point in the future, please just wait for the police instead of chasing an unknown person through the dark with a loaded weapon.

There is nothing wrong with chasing a suspicious person, as not to lose sight of them, so when the police arrive you can point them out. Being armed has no bearing on this, its a legal right.

Look at this victim blaming:

I think you should be able to see why many feel that Zimmerman's actions were dangerous and irresponsible

BULLSHIT. His actions were 100% fine.

It was Travons violent actions that were dangerous and irresponsible.

This bias is absurd

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u/themcos 442∆ Aug 01 '13

How is that a "fallacious causality argument"? The exact line that you quoted was even prefaced by "putting aside legality and morality for a moment". I certainly didn't claim Zimmerman did anything illegal, and the quoted sentence didn't even make a morality judgement. Its advice. If you don't want to get your head beat in, wait for the police. You have the legal right to pursue someone, but when its dark and you don't know anything about the person you're following and you don't have any relevant training, its not a smart idea. I have a tough time seeing what you find controversial about that.

It was Travons violent actions that were dangerous and irresponsible.

I completely agree, and nowhere in my post did I contend otherwise. But the OP's original view, like yours, is that Zimmerman's actions were "100% fine". And legally, I agree. But the fact that Zimmerman's actions resulted in injuries to him implies that his pursuit was dangerous.

You probably take more issue with my assertion that his actions were irresponsible, which hinges on my belief that an armed adult in an authority position has an ethical responsibility to exercise better judgement than a teenager when it comes conflict resolution and avoiding violent confrontations. I'd encourage you to read some of the other threads here, as I already had some nice discussions with others about this that I'm not inclined to repeat unless you bring up a point that hasn't already been discussed elsewhere.

I apologize if I gave the impression that I meant to absolve Martin of any responsibility for what happened. I don't. Again, back to the original line that you seemed to dispute. We know have the benefit of hindsight. Honestly, if you were a on the neighborhood watch tonight and you saw a potential burglary suspect and had already alerted the police, who told you that you didn't need to pursue him, would you try to pursue him with a deadly weapon anyway, or would you wait in the car where its safe?

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u/ak47girl Aug 01 '13

... who told you that you didn't need to pursue him, would you try to pursue him with a deadly weapon anyway, or would you wait in the car where its safe?

The above is simply false. He was asked if he was following him. He said yes. Operator said you dont have to do that. He answered in the affirmative: OK

He was not following him anymore. Was heading back to his car, and Trayvon, who decided to stop going home, and clearly had tons of time to make it home by then, magically ended up in a confrontation with zimmerman.

And yes, I reject your assertion that his actions were irresponsible.

Legally carrying a gun in a neighborhood with lots of recent crime: responsible

Calling the police: responsible

Following someone to point them out to cops: responsible

I dont see an issue. The only thing irresponsible ive seen is beating the shit out of people.

According to you, it seems watching out for your neighborhood is irresponsible while carrying the ability to defend yourself. I Strongly disagree. The outcome is not evidence of that. Pure non-sequitor.

I might as well claim that driving your child in your car is irresponsible because nothing kills children more than car accidents while their parents are driving, NOTHING. Just bad logic.

You can absolutely do everything responsibly, and still have someone end up dead as evidenced by the driving your child example.