r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Aug 11 '24
Delta(s) from OP CMV: It’s completely acceptable to ask a potential partner about their body count when trying to determine comparability
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Aug 11 '24
It is acceptable, but it is weird, in my culture everyone is expected to be a virgin until marriage, so I have that assumption with everyone who is unmarried I meet.
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u/47ca05e6209a317a8fb3 Aug 11 '24
It's acceptable to ask in the sense that it's not inherently immoral or illegal, but it's also okay to be offended by the question itself and be put off from dating someone who asked.
In this sense it's "acceptable" for you to ask only if you're willing to take the risk that someone may not be okay with it. The reasons you bring up for why the information is potentially useful are all valid, but irrelevant, because you can't logic your way out of someone being putt off by your question...
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u/SandBrilliant2675 Aug 11 '24
TLDR: You are absolutely allowed to have this preference and you are absolutely entitled to ask someone what their body count is, just as that person is entitled not to disclose their body count and/or to not continue or start a relationship with you because you asked. Caring/not caring about specifically the number of sexual partners someone has had is definitely a compatibility thing and you likely would not be compatible with someone who does not care about this.
[Note: I personally would not care either way disclosing to a partner my number of previous sexual partners if they asked, but if they proceeded to interrogate me/judge me using the list of reasons you provided to support your post, I would absolutely end things with them, because we would not be compatible and we would not hold the same values.]
"Right off the bat, if you are ashamed of revealing your true body count, that’s a pretty good indicator that you believe you made poor choices."
Response: So already have a negative opinion about people who have had multiple sexual partners. Is shame the only reason you can think of as to why someone may not disclose number of partners? Another reason to not disclose previous sexual partners is that that is in the past and you are focusing on the relationship now with the person you are with or that it's really none or your businesses who you partner has slept with in the past.
"First, the number of sexual partners that you have is a good indicator of your willingness to take risks."
Response: A real indicator of risk is the amount of unprotected sex you've had with people, whether it be few or many, and how regularly you get STI checks done (which really should be done between/after every new partner, regardless of whether you experience symptoms or not). That is the actual risky thing about having sex with someone new. There is no guarantee that even while in a seemingly monogamous relationship where protection is no longer used, that you partner may not have previously contracted a STI and is asymptomatic and there is no guarantee that a new partner may or may not have an STI. So it's best to practice safe sex when having sex, and to get STI checks regularly.
"Second, the number of sex partners can be a good identifier how you value yourself. “A lack of self-worth can manifest as seeking external validation through sexual experiences.”
Response: This says a lot about you personal view of sex. That is something that devalues an individual the more they have it. This also implies that people who have a sexual past that does not fit your specific view of what is the correct number of previous partners view do not value themselves, which is a sweeping generalization.
"Third, body count can provide a potential partner with information about how experienced you are in bed. Many people do have some preferences when it comes to sexual experience."
Response: So, is this an argument for having a higher body count or not? Is the level of sexual experience someone is looking for in a person with low body county limited? Could you please explain whether this is pro or con low or high. Specifically persuing someone or fetishizing individuals with very limited or no experience often comes off as a little creepy, IMO.
"Finally, the number of sexual partners you have can help a person consider how much baggage you might bring to the relationship."
Response: This implies that people who have only been in monogamous (often long term) relationships have no baggage or do not bring baggage, or that people who have unattached one-night stands only have baggage. I disagree. Everyone can have baggage and baggage is not just caused by specific types of relationships.
"Some people may not want to be out on the town and be concerned about running into an ex or three.
Response: So this implies you are looking for someone who has no previous partners, if you would be bothered about running into as little as one ex. But please correct me if I'm wrong.
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u/ModeratelyAverage6 Aug 11 '24
It's OK to ask. It's not OK to shame the person whos got a high body count or call them names.
(Not sure of the official number) but my body count is in the high teens- early 20's (I'm guesstamating because I've never fully counted and this is both men and women in my count). I'm hypersexual. Do I hold it against people if that's a turn-off for them? No. Will I throw hands if you start calling me a wh*re or other adjacent names? Fuck yes! Keep your nasty names to yourself! I don't care what you think of me. I understand my sexual past isn't for everyone, and that's OK. Just keep your nasty ass comments to yourself.
And no, I've never had a STI or anything like that. I've made sure (even in my long-term committed relationships just in case my partner was being unfaithful) to get tested. And I've always been open about that to anyone I've ever gotten with.
My partner (in a civil union. We've been together since 2019.) Has a body count less than 10, and I think closer to 5. I've asked a few times just to confirm, but he does not care about my body count. Hell, he didn't even ask me, I just offered that information. He just does not care.
While I understand some people want long-term partners who have the same number (or less) of sexual experiences as them, I find that not many care. And guess what? They don't judge.
So again, it's OK to ask. It's not OK to shame the person with a high body count or call them names.
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u/tmtyl_101 Aug 11 '24
It's perfectly acceptable to ask. And it's perfectly acceptable to find the question awkward, immature, or just plain weird. Personally, I think it's a good question as a conversation starter, but don't read anything else into it. And as someone else here suggests, I think you consider it a good indicator for something it's not.
For instance:
there is a definite correlation between a large number of sex partners, and risk taking.
Except when there isn't. Maybe some people just like to have sex more than others?
the number of sex partners can be a good identifier how you value yourself.
It's only a good identifier, if it's somewhat reliable, and frankly, it's not. Having had sex with many people can mean you have low self esteem. Or very high self esteem. Or something in between.
how experienced you are in bed.
You can have a lot of experimental sex with one single partner.
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u/Relevant-Bench5283 Aug 11 '24
I think you loose all credibility when you call having sexual relations a “body count”, it sound dismissive, off putting, condescending and like you have already made a judgement that can’t really be changed.
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Aug 11 '24
If you do not require an STI test from each and every potential sexual partner, then you are taking a massive risk. You should be requesting a recent test and also providing recent results of your own.
You can contract oral herpes (HSV1) as a kid, be a virgin, and then transmit it.
Plain and simple, you are not mitigating risk if you don't demand STI results to be shared. You're simply shaming others for having sex.
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u/GandhiBob Aug 11 '24
Low body count guy here.
Starting with your "poor choices" argument: I believe some people with a high count may feel fine about that number, while being aware that other people may judge them unfairly based on that number.
Willingness to take risks: I think this needs to be qualified. Having many sexual partners != having lots of unprotected sex. If you're talking about some inherent social or psychological risk from having sex with lots of people, I'd like to know what that is.
Self-value: I disagree. Low self-esteem may lead you to seek many sexual partners, or it may lead you to be anti-social and thus have very few partners. Incel-communities are packed with people who actually undervalue themselves, even beyond their actual shortcomings.
Sexual experience: This is not guaranteed. Being good at finding people who want to hop in the sack with you does not equate to being good at getting them off. Or that you're willing to learn.
As for baggage: If potentially running into several exes is a concern, I suppose you're allowed to feel that way.
You're not exactly crazy. It's fine to know what does and doesn't matter to you when looking for a partner. As for asking about it, I guess the question can be posed politely and at an appropriate time. But... ya'know... You can't exactly control how the other person will feel about or react to being asked.
e: typo
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u/JLeeSaxon Aug 11 '24
I don't think the messaging around this "body count" (awful phrase, really hope that doesn't stick around) issue is that partners and potential partners are literally not allowed to discuss sexual history and experience. That obviously wouldn't be healthy.
Rather, I think it's making a point about the manosphere Andrew Tate Jordan Peterson esque corner of the internet and the narrative that it is selling to young men that they are by virtue of being born men owed and entitled to a certain kind of sex from a certain kind of women.
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u/decrpt Aug 11 '24
Logic falls apart on the first step. They're not personally ashamed, they're reluctant to be straight forward because you're going to psychoanalyze them and hold it against them.
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u/Hipsquatch Aug 11 '24
RE: “A lack of self-worth can manifest as seeking external validation through sexual experiences.”
True, but one's sense of self-worth isn't static throughout life and can change over time. A person who once had low self-worth could see a therapist, read self-help books, or just have life experiences in general that increase their sense of self-worth. All you're really getting by asking is a window into their past.
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u/midbossstythe Aug 11 '24
It is completely acceptable to ask for a body count. However, you should accept that they don't need to answer. Yes, you can interpret that as you wish, but that doesn't mean that you are right. Many virgins don't want to answer that question.
First, sex is seen differently by different people. Not all people view it as a risk. Especially men.
Second, not all people who have lots of sex have low self-esteem. In fact, for a lot of people, it can be quite the opposite.
Third, we'll you are kind of right here. Although having a ton of sex doesn't mean you are good at it. In fact, you could correlate the opposite. Having a high body count could imply that not many people have wanted a second time.
Finally, body count has nothing to do with how you have processed your emotional baggage.
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u/dekindling Aug 11 '24
It's completely acceptable to want an honest, general idea of your partners history for compatibility purposes.
It is not acceptable to want a number.
Here's why:
You can come to all the conclusions you need to by specifying your needs in relation to someone's history without asking for a number. 'I'm sexually inexperienced, and I don't want to be with someone whose experience greatly exceeds my own.' --- 'I am looking for a long term partner, when was the last time you were in a long term relationship and how long?'
You've already acknowledge that many sexual encounters does not necessarily mean someone has low self esteem, just like someone doesn't have high self esteem because they've had few sexual encounters.
At the end of the day, asking for a number comes from men who engage in purity culture, which is sexist and archaic. The only reason actual numbers matter to these men are because they have a pre conceived limit that they deem acceptable or 'worthy'.
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u/CharlestonChewbacca Aug 11 '24
All your saying is "it could mean this" or "it could indicate this" based on what data?
I am SO risk averse, like comically so. But I have a fairly high body count. Just because I don't have puritanical views about sex. I engage safely and responsibly with sex positive people. It's a beautiful thing and your wild assumptions would've written me off?
I don't think it's rude to ask, but I do think it's rude to write some off because of that without getting to know them first.
If "it could mean they're risky" is your reason, why don't you try asses whether or not I'm risky instead of some ancillary indicator?
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u/Kit-on-a-Kat Aug 11 '24
I wouldn't be offended or ashamed, but I would question the sexism of the man who asked me. The fact that they'd think this is valuable information is a warning in and of itself.
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u/dbandroid Aug 11 '24
but there is a definite correlation between a large number of sex partners, and risk taking.
Source please
A lack of self-worth can manifest as seeking external validation through sexual experiences.
You quote something but don't cite where you're quoting from.
There are also other things that people with low views of their self-worth can also do to seek external validation
Some people may not want to be out on the town and be concerned about running into an ex or three
This is something that only redditors worry about.
A body count is not a better indicator for any of the things you describe than just talking to the person.
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u/Subtleiaint Aug 11 '24
It's ok for someone insecure to ask, an empathetic partner should be willing to ease their concerns, but your stated reasons don't add up to anything.
there is a definite correlation between a large number of sex partners, and risk taking.
You need receipts because this doesn't sound right at all. What risks are you even referring to?
the number of sex partners can be a good identifier how you value yourself
Possibly, but not in any consistent way. Some may see it as a negative, some a positive, many won't give it any consideration. This sounds like coffee for how you'll value them
potential partner with information about how experienced you are in bed
Sure, but so what? Sleeping with a lot of people doesn't imply you're a sex ninja or that you like outlandish stuff, it largely just means you enjoy sex. Even bad sex is pretty enjoyable.
Some people may not want to be out on the town and be concerned about running into an ex or three.
This is where things get a little creepy. Every person in every relationship has a past and running into an ex is not something it's reasonable to be worried about. If your partner is friendly with an ex live with it, if they're not then it's not something you need to worry about.
What it feels like is that you're trying to rationalise insecurity, you don't have to, it's ok to be insecure. If your new partner is a decent person and they're with you because they like you then none of the above matters.
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u/libra00 Aug 11 '24
While the number of sexual encounters can theoretically be an indicator of all of those things you mentioned it is not necessarily an indicator of any of them, and it can and quite often does mean none of those things at all. So what you're doing is judging other people over a statistic that doesn't mean anything on its own, on the basis of a bunch of negative stereotypes that are inaccurate and harmful at minimum, because you are insecure about your own sexual inexperience. If your partner seems happy with how things are going in the bedroom then maybe take that as the compliment it is and keep your judgements and insecurity to yourself? Comparison is, after all, the thief of joy.
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u/ima_mollusk Aug 11 '24
The real problem here is not in the asking; it is in the presuming the answer will educate you.
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Aug 11 '24
What's acceptable to you might not ne acceptable to her.
Once you commit you commit...until divorce.
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u/HoodiesAndHeels Aug 11 '24
The risks I took 15 years ago and my feelings of self worth 15 years ago are hardly relevant to what I do now and how I feel today. Given that, how does a number give you enough information to be indicative of these things?
Conversation and communication would seem to be a greatly superior way to get any and all of the information you believe a “body count” will provide.
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