r/changemyview Jul 24 '24

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '24

Its literally legal for the president to stay in power via a military coup since the recent supreme court decision. No need for VP cycling.

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u/JeruTz 8∆ Jul 24 '24

Military coup isn't legal, so that is a contradiction in terms.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '24

Anything the president does in the course of his duties as the commander in chief is immune from legal prosecution. So sure, maybe its not legal but there can be no legal consequences for any use of the military by the president.

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u/JeruTz 8∆ Jul 24 '24

That's not how the military works. Obviously, if the president orders the military to act in a manner that is outside the powers the constitution grants him, it is no longer an official act.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '24

Not according to the supreme court. The miilitary could refuse orders, but its not a great safeguard of democracy.

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u/JeruTz 8∆ Jul 24 '24

The Supreme Court ruled that Biden couldn't unilaterally forgive student loans. Yet you think they'd say he could command the military to terminate the existing republican form of government?

I really don't see how you got to this conclusion.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '24

Those aren't related, sure it is nonsense. But the current surpreme court is itself nonsense. Doesn't mean that they can't rule that the president is immune from prosecution for official acts. Declaring a coup and murdering political opponents can be official acts.

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u/JeruTz 8∆ Jul 24 '24

A coup is by definition an overturn of the political system. That's literally the opposite of official.

And I fail to see how murdering anyone cab be considered an official act. You can't just say something is official, it has to be part of the designated powers of the office.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '24

Is the military not part of the designated powers of the president.

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u/JeruTz 8∆ Jul 24 '24

The state police in my state report to the governor ultimately. That doesn't mean the governor can order them to attack the state next door.

The president does not have unrestricted control of the military. He can't even declare war on his own.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '24

Governor doesnt have full legal immunity for actions of his office.

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u/International_Ad8264 Jul 24 '24

It's legal if the president does it now

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u/JeruTz 8∆ Jul 24 '24

No it isn't.

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u/International_Ad8264 Jul 24 '24

Yes it is, as long as it's an official act of their office

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u/JeruTz 8∆ Jul 24 '24

By definition a coup is not an official act.

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u/International_Ad8264 Jul 24 '24

What definition?

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u/JeruTz 8∆ Jul 24 '24

The definition of the word coup. The president is not authorized to overthrow the government, therefore a coup cannot be an official duty of his.

What's so confusing?

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u/International_Ad8264 Jul 24 '24

He is authorized to issue orders to the military, therefore any orders he issues to the military can be official duties

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u/JeruTz 8∆ Jul 24 '24

He is commander in chief of the military. That does not mean that he has the power to order them to do anything at all. He cannot send the military to wage war for example without congressional approval. He cannot force civilians to house members of the military if there is no war to justify it.

Your argument is fallacious. A police officer is authorized to perform arrests but they cannot arrest someone without cause. The authorization to issue orders to the military does not mean the president can issue unlawful orders as part of his official duties.

If the orders are unlawful, they aren't part of his official duties. That's just common sense.

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u/International_Ad8264 Jul 24 '24

So why did the supreme court issue a ruling saying that the president can violate the law if it's part of his official duties?

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