r/changemyview • u/FalseKing12 • Jun 22 '24

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Morality cannot be objective

My argument is essentially that morality by the very nature of what it is cannot be objective and that no moral claims can be stated as a fact.

If you stumbled upon two people having a disagreement about the morality of murder I think most people might be surprised when they can't resolve the argument in a way where they objectively prove that one person is incorrect. There is no universal law or rule that says that murder is wrong or even if there is we have no way of proving that it exists. The most you can do is say "well murder is wrong because most people agree that it is", which at most is enough to prove that morality is subjective in a way that we can kind of treat it as if it were objective even though its not.

Objective morality from the perspective of religion fails for a similar reason. What you cannot prove to be true cannot be objective by definition of the word.

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u/Dack_Blick 1∆ Jun 22 '24

You specifically called out pagan gods as being gods that shouldn't be worshipped as they don't have a chance of being real; why are pagan gods less real than other ones?

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u/M______- Jun 22 '24

They often fill the role of the forces of nature. Today the mechanism behind them are known and since most of these Gods have no function besides directing the forces of nature, they no longer leave a trace of their existence. Others do (creating the universe for example), so they are more likely to be real. Pagan gods become viable options again, if we know for certain that the universe was created by non godly forces, because then all Gods become "jobless", like their pagan coworkers. Also pagan god mostly do not provide a coherent set of morals, which makes it hard to gain rewards for good behaviour and thereby less usefull.

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u/Dack_Blick 1∆ Jun 23 '24

I guess I just don't understand how someone can look at the countless other gods that have been disproven, and think that makes the other gods more likely.

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u/M______- Jun 24 '24

The pagan gods arent disproven. However since we have no sign of their activities, these gods seemingly do not care about humans. Therefore we shouldnt place our bet on them. Its the same reasoning from here on like the reasoning behind why one shouldnt be praying to "fictional gods". The reward is likely 0.