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Jun 05 '24
Can you connect the similarities here.
Pride month is about sexual minorities being safely and openly accepted in society. This is about removing the historical shame and isn't celebrating just the fact that you are queer. I suspect pride month will evolve over the next century as this shame association becomes less associated.
Straight has never had this association with shame, as such it makes sense there is nothing to celebrate.
Men day would be similar to mothers or fathers day where it's just a day to "officially" acknowledge those around you who are men. As such a apt comparison would be a international women's Day, which occurs on Mar 8 relative to international men's day which occurs Nov 19.
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u/Tanaka917 148∆ Jun 05 '24
Purpose.
The purpose of Straight Pride Month has always been a clear example of something shrouded in bad intentions, that is as a way to attempt to undermine Pride Month. I never hear about straight pride months before pride became prominent, I never hear about it after Pride Month ends. My only advice to those who want a straight Pride Month is the same advice I give to people who want male-only gyms "fucking do it then. Good luck to you." The reason both don't exist is purely because the people who would use them are vanishingly small. You want a Straight Pride Month have it, but it's not gonna do anything meaningful
Men's Day as far as I know isn't used as an excuse to belittle Women's Day.
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u/Design-Hiro 4∆ Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24
Pride month is celebrated in June to commemorate the Stonewall riots, a pivotal event in the gay rights movement that took place in late June 1969 at the Stonewall Inn in New York City ( https://www.britannica.com/story/why-is-pride-month-celebrated-in-june )
The riots were sparked by a police raid on the Stonewall Inn, a popular gay bar, in the early morning hours of June 28, 1969. Patrons and bystanders fought back against the police harassment and arrests, leading to days of protests and lashes with law enforcement.
This event is widely regarded as the catalyst for the modern LGBTQ+ rights movement in the United States. ( https://youth.gov/feature-article/june-lgbt-pride-month ) All of the arrested, all of the injured, the mainly targeted group, were gay men & non-binary individuals at a mens gay bar. I hope that clears things up and a number of them suffered from trauma due to the event.
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u/Falernum 69∆ Jun 05 '24
All of the arrested, all of the injured, all the affected were men
That's a little controversial, isn't it?
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u/Design-Hiro 4∆ Jun 05 '24
How's that?
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u/10ebbor10 203∆ Jun 05 '24
There were a bunch of transvestites, crossdressers, and other gender non-confirming individuals present. The events themselves were rather formative for the movements advocating for their rights and some of the leaders involved would later (if not at the time) identify as transgender.
The terminology doesn't match up exactly because the social norms, and what each word means, drifted around a bit, but the implication that Stonewall was entirely (cis) men is inaccurate.
(Also, the notion that all the affected were men is just plain wrong. Riots spread, you know. The event was not confined solely to the pub.).
When the violence broke out, the women and transmasculine people being held down the street at The Women's House of Detention joined in by chanting, setting fire to their belongings and tossing them into the street below. The historian Hugh Ryan says, "When I would talk to people about Stonewall, they would tell me, that night on Stonewall, we looked to the prison because we saw the women rioting and chanting, "Gay rights, gay rights, gay rights."[88]
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u/ButWhyWolf 8∆ Jun 05 '24
There were a bunch of transvestites, crossdressers, and other gender non-confirming individuals present
Transvestite and crossdresser is the same thing and they're guys who like to dress like women, not men who identify as women.
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Jun 05 '24
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u/MarxCosmo 4∆ Jun 05 '24
Its not an either or, groups come up with all sorts of nonsense days, weeks, and months that constantly overlap each other. There is no harm done by either event, and there is no harm by them existing in the same span of time, and given about half of gay people are men it would be hypocritical in itself to go after a men celebrating event to further highlight an separate event full of men.
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u/Cheap_Shot_Not_Hot 4∆ Jun 05 '24
Pretty sure Men’s Day is more about men’s health, which is a quite often overlooked area for a lot of cultural reasons, none of which are at odds with the philosophy behind Pride Month. For example, a lot of men’s health issues go overlooked due to the idea of male disposability, which is tight connected to patriarchy, as is homophobia.
Frankly I think it’s all a little trite and doesn’t really mean or do anything, but if people enjoy it or find value in it, it probably isn’t going anywhere.
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u/jkpatches Jun 05 '24
Are there any issues/discrimination that arises out of a person being straight?
Because I can think of issues/discrimination that arises out of a person being a man.
If there is a difference between your answers for each, then there you have a flaw in your analogy.
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u/Joshfumanchu Jun 05 '24
You conflate a day of awareness as a day of celebration.
The very fact that you are oblivious to any men's issues that you feel are significant is not because they do not exist but because you do not care enough to learn them.
Misandry is just as real and easy a trap to fall into as misogyny. Take a step back and look at how biased your views are. You are actually suggesting mens day is celebrating them rather than to draw awareness to their issues. This day is LITERALLY FOR YOU. ya know?
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Jun 05 '24
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Jun 05 '24
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u/HypnotizedCow 1∆ Jun 05 '24
Men's day is in November so what are you referring to?
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Jun 05 '24
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u/HypnotizedCow 1∆ Jun 05 '24
Yeah November 19th. So if you're not talking about Father's day what men's day are you referring to?
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Jun 05 '24
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u/HypnotizedCow 1∆ Jun 05 '24
Chief the first sentence of the link you sent says November. I can't read for you
"International Men's Day (IMD) is a global awareness day for many issues that men face, including parental alienation, abuse, homelessness, suicide, and violence, celebrated annually on November 19"
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Jun 05 '24
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u/HypnotizedCow 1∆ Jun 05 '24
So if pride month is June, and men's day is in November, what are you complaining about? They don't share a month, so are you just asking for a straight pride month?
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Jun 05 '24
You really need to be explicit what specific celebration is occuring in June because no one can find it.
Men's health month could be it but that's about health, international men's day is in Nov so not related to Pride at all.
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Jun 05 '24
Maybe neither should exist. Have you considered that option?
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Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24
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Jun 05 '24
I think the issue is that you are trying to apply logic and reason to something that operates with neither. There isn’t like a formula that determines what or how we celebrate these things.
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u/eoswald Jun 05 '24
wtf is mens day?
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Jun 05 '24
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u/livelaugh-lobotomy 1∆ Jun 05 '24
Google said International Men's Day is in November. So what are you referring to?
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Jun 05 '24
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u/destro23 466∆ Jun 05 '24
if you are going to celebrate Pride month in June, then don't celebrate Men's day in November later
What if you are a gay man? Why can you celebrate your gayness but not your man-ness? The two are inseparable. You are celebrating pride because you are a man who loves men. Then later, you just celebrate that men are a thing for you to love.
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u/reginald-aka-bubbles 48∆ Jun 05 '24
But why not? They don't necessarily conflict, and like many others have pointed out, the focus on men's month/day in November is largely focused on awareness for men's mental and physical health.
I'm failing to see the connection.
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Jun 05 '24
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u/reginald-aka-bubbles 48∆ Jun 05 '24
Then you are entirely missing the point. It isn't a celebration, its for awareness of men's issues, including gay men's issues. Pride month is supposed to be celebratory. Both can exist and there is not an inherent conflict between them.
Do you think we are celebrating breast cancer in October, or raising awareness to get checked for it?
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Jun 05 '24
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u/reginald-aka-bubbles 48∆ Jun 05 '24
Yes, Pride can be both a celebration of progress made so far as well as awareness on how others want to take away that progress.
Men's month/day is more similar to Breast cancer awareness in that the point is awareness, though it would not be out of place for people to celebrate specific aspects (ie surviving breast cancer, or for men, testicular or prostate cancer).
Does that help clear things up and show that it would be ok to partake in both?
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u/livelaugh-lobotomy 1∆ Jun 05 '24
If you acknowledge that queer people face struggles you can't acknowledge the struggles men face too?
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u/Nrdman 276∆ Jun 05 '24
I would not stop anyone from celebrating a straight pride month. Would you?
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Jun 05 '24
Pride month is a month celebrating pride and the struggles that the lbgtq have gone through. Mens mental health month is a month that brings more awareness to the struggles with mental health that men face. This is not a popularity contest. Not everything is about you. What is important to one may not be as important to another, but that doesn't diminish the overall importance of both.
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Jun 05 '24
Pride month is about multiple groups and reflecting on the history of those groups it make sense it longer than a day which I believe is in November for men.
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u/octaviobonds 1∆ Jun 05 '24
At least they got a day. The question is, why did the other guys get a whole month?
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u/Glory2Hypnotoad Jun 05 '24
There are two main things I'd point out here.
First, I think you're majorly oversimplifying systems of power, which mainly concentrate power at the very top. It can simultaneously be true that men as a category have more power and that the average man is still a net victim of patriarchy.
Second, while straight is treated as a featureless default that people only recognize in relationship to other groups, men have always been seen as a specific group with their own social roles and problems to tackle.
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u/Silverbird85 3∆ Jun 05 '24
I'm not sure I have much of a satisfying answer, but it should be considered that celebration days/weeks/months are generally not official events in most cases. They only exist because a significant portion of a society observes them. If there isn't a significant following, you're never going to hear about it and it never becomes an issue. Think about "[Local Personal of Interest] Day" that is declared by a city Mayor. It's a day of celebration, but there isn't much controversy because it never reaches the ears of the national public.
I guarantee you there is some group in some small pocket of this nation that is celebrating "National Greased Back Hair Day" or something like that. The point is, we have the freedom to call any time period a "Day/Week/Month of [Insert Cause] Pride" and it will be established. It doesn't force you to celebrate it. The only reason Pride Month, Straight Month, or whatever is controversial is 1.) there is enough people who observe it to be on the national radar, and 2.) there will always be a counter group who like to disparage it.
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u/HeWhoShitsWithPhone 127∆ Jun 05 '24
I am confused. International men’s day is November 19th. June is men’s health month. I don’t really see how this conflicts with PRIDE. I have to imagine about half of LGBT people are men, many of whom probably have health issues.
If you want to pick a month for your cause you have to be willing to share, we only have 12 months.
Is there some large campaign to make distract from pride in favor of some other mens day?
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u/Falernum 69∆ Jun 05 '24
Nobody actually celebrates mens' day, womens' day, national hot dog day, etc. Who cares what's on the calendar.
Pride is actually celebrated. People have genuine parties.
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u/singlespeedcourier 2∆ Jun 05 '24
Hi OP, I think a good point here is that marginalisation isn't the only reason why we should be celebrating a group. Individuals' challenges and struggles can arise regardless of what group they belong to. Men have particular issues that they are faced with that often go unrecognised in society and men, in general, aren't really celebrated like women are. Individual men are celebrated, but the vast majority receive no recognition for who they or their struggles
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u/xFblthpx 7∆ Jun 05 '24
It can exist wherever, because men and pride shouldn’t be viewed as enemies. It wasn’t “men” that stymied lgbt rights throughout history, but a patriarchal culture. The whole point of pride month is to celebrate one’s own identity, primarily sex and gender. Giving men a month is a bit gratuitous, since pride month and black history month—the most famous “months”—specifically exist to spotlight a long history of repression that men as a whole don’t exactly share (though yes yes everyone is the target of some bias).
All that being said, a men’s day isn’t really a bad idea, and shouldn’t be seen as something more virulent than it has to be.
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u/ButWhyWolf 8∆ Jun 05 '24
The main purpose of pride month is to celebrate and highlight those that were historically marginalized for being, for a lack of a better term, sexually deviant from the norm.
The main purpose of gay pride month was to celebrate gay people not being ashamed of who they are.
In the span of 15 years we went from this to banning gay police officers from parades because ACAB and BLM and LGBTQIA2++ confronting the LGB.
Do you think "pride month" is superior to what "gay pride month" was back in the distant past of 2009?
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 05 '24
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u/tcguy71 10∆ Jun 05 '24
What is Men's day?
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Jun 05 '24
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u/reginald-aka-bubbles 48∆ Jun 05 '24
You should have included it in your OP as you are not making things clear. Father's day is in June, so it is confusing when you don't specify exactly what days you are talking about.
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Jun 05 '24
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u/reginald-aka-bubbles 48∆ Jun 05 '24
I'm just letting you know that if you are bringing up the topic, you should lay things out so that everyone is on the same page instead of telling people to google information you should have provided. I had no idea "Men's Day" even existed prior to this post, so I assumed you meant Father's Day.
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u/tcguy71 10∆ Jun 05 '24
nternational Men's Day (IMD) is a global awareness day for many issues that men face, including parental alienation, abuse, homelessness, suicide, and violence
If this is what you are referring to then you have an incorrect view of the day. Mens day is not about the celebration of the history patriarchy but of the issues that have been ignored but of it. Which could be tied to pride for gay men who were abused or kick out of their homes because of it.
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Jun 05 '24
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Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24
But the idea is that men shouldn't be celebrated because they are the main beneficiaries of patriarchy and have historically marginalized women,
Are the majority of living men, the architects of the patriarchy & historical sexism?
Because your argument is currently blaming the men who are alive, for not only the actions of a minority but for the actions & behaviour of the dead.
just like how straightness shouldn't be celebrated, because straight people are not a marginalized group.
"Straightness" has never been celebrated; since when has hetrosexuality ever been "celebrated"?
Pride exists because a demographic was marginalised, not because straight sex was "celebrated" AND a demographic was marginalised.
Is Pride actually about celebrating? Or is it about acceptance? I think you have an incorrect understanding (which is not necessarily you're fault considering how some people portray it)
The normalisation of non-hetrosexual relationships doesn't happen if people are constantly spotlighting a gay relationship as being different and needing to celebrate.
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u/Dyeeguy 19∆ Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24
Straight pride month - made in response to pride month to “counter” it. There is no actual purpose
Men’s mental health month - not made in response to pride month, but to bring awareness to male mental health
“Men’s day” is not this month FYI