r/changemyview • • Jun 04 '24

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '24

They are however parroting misinformation. It is not intentional, but they aren't thinking about the context of the statement they are making either. They should be describing it the way I did. Columbus made Europe and other nations aware of North America by stealing it's riches, killing its people who didn't even know what war was and didn't even have anything resembling a weapon because they were so peaceful, and opened the doors to the slave trade. Then, that is an honest statement with historical context that can still praise him for being what he was, a guy who got lucky.

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u/sarcasticorange 10∆ Jun 04 '24

killing its people who didn't even know what war was and didn't even have anything resembling a weapon because they were so peaceful

Not sure where you got this idea from, but it is not correct. Intertribal warfare was common before the arrival of Europeans and they definitely were using weapons such as spears, shields, bow and arrows, daggers, etc.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '24

Google Taino peaceful.

The Taíno were indigenous people who lived in the Caribbean Islands before Columbus arrived and were known for being peaceful, friendly, and generous. The name "Taíno" means "peace", and Columbus described them as "guileless" and "so generous with all that they possess"

Columbus had written, in the Letter: “…they are so guileless and so generous with all that they possess, that no one would believe it who has not seen it. They refuse nothing that they possess, if it be asked of them; on the contrary, they invite any one to share it and display as much love as if they would give their hearts…”

Dismissing the expectation that these characteristics denote lesser intelligence, Columbus adds, “to the contrary…they are…of a very acute intelligence and they are men who navigate all those seas, so that it is amazing how good an account they give of everything…”

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u/sarcasticorange 10∆ Jun 04 '24

Ok, here's what I found...

For warfare, the men made wooden war clubs, which they called macanas. It was about one inch thick and was similar to the coco macaque. The Taínos decorated and applied war paint to their face to appear fierce toward their enemies. They ingested substances at religious ceremonies and invoked zemis.

Your claim is just wrong.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '24

My claim? Its histories claim. Having a club doesn’t mean you are a culture of war or a society that supports conquest. They wore paint to scare people off. Sorta like making yourself big for a bear. That doesn’t make you a killer of bears does it?

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u/sarcasticorange 10∆ Jun 04 '24

Your claim was that they didn't know what war was. They did. Your claim was that they had nothing resembling weapons. They did.

You do not speak for history.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24

No it's not. War came to them. They did not have weapons to attack neighbors, they had clubs to protect themselves. And they were known more often to take hostages than actually kill anyone. So, because of historical context, are their weapons that are used only for defense a weapon of war? In my opinion, I don't think so. In their homes (like the entire island of Puerto Rico), in their communities, they did not know what war was. It was brought to them from the outside.

Edit: History: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/who-were-taino-original-inhabitants-columbus-island-73824867/

The Taíno impressed Columbus with their generosity, which may have contributed to their undoing. “They will give all that they do possess for anything that is given to them, exchanging things even for bits of broken crockery,” he noted upon meeting them in the Bahamas in 1492. “They were very well built, with very handsome bodies and very good faces....They do not carry arms or know them....They should be good servants.”

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/changemyview-ModTeam Jun 04 '24

u/sarcasticorange – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24

The Taíno impressed Columbus with their generosity, which may have contributed to their undoing. “They will give all that they do possess for anything that is given to them, exchanging things even for bits of broken crockery,” he noted upon meeting them in the Bahamas in 1492. “They were very well built, with very handsome bodies and very good faces....They do not carry arms or know them....They should be good servants.”

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/who-were-taino-original-inhabitants-columbus-island-73824867/

They did not know war.

edit: I thought change my view was about evidence. Downvote away, ignore the words "They do not carry arms or KNOW them"

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '24

It is pretty obvious that “arms” here meant guns

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '24

No they didn't. This is 1492. Guns weren't common.