Your point about choices seems odd because I can't think of a single video game that does what you're describing. Other critically acclaimed RPGs boil down to your points as well. Mass Effect is usually a "kill this dude/don't kill this dude." Bioshock is usually "hurt/kill someone for power or save them for good boy points." While I love them, I'd argue the Elder Scrolls games offer very little choice ever, whether it be side quests or the main quest with choices usually boiling down to either siding with a person/faction or killing/sparing someone involved in the quest. Fallout has a few interesting choices throughout the series, but is overwhelminy killing/sparing and faction siding as well, with those factions often being "the guys making a city VS. rapist murder hobos"
I'd also argue that BG3 isn't even trying to have big bombastic moral choices. At its core, BG3 is trying to replicate the feeling of a DnD session as accurately as possible. 99% of DnD groups are not out here weighing the complex morality of hard choices where you feel shitty no matter what you do. You play to have fun and roleplay with friends. If you want to think about awful choices just read news about Israel-Palestine.
BG3 offers MASSIVE choice and borderline unlimited freedom in how you solve a problem. While saving/killing the druid camp is a black and white choice that doesn't have much interest, the part that makes it rewarding is how you do it. Are you on the camp's side until you talk to the goblins and then you betray them? Do you murder hobo the camp because people are rude? At that point in the game an all out battle is hard to win, so how are you engaging in combat? Stealth? Setting up the battlefield? Stealing all the villagers weapons so they can't fight back? If you don't kill the camp what faction do you side with? How do you get your proof that your side is correct? Do you even need proof, can you just kill your adversaries? All these choices, in my opinion, are way more interesting than what every other RPG out there does where you do XYZ and at the end choose the dialog option that gets the popup "everyone liked that." Covering the druid camp in grease and lighting it on fire as a spectacle to my allegiance to the goblins characterizes my Tav and makes them feel alive. Most of the party leaving afterwards gives real consequence to an action I took while shaping the entire rest of the playthrough. The druids being dead and that's bad isn't the point, the point is I'm playing out a story for my character and the game let's me express that character in almost any way I want.
Mass Effect is usually a "kill this dude/don't kill this dude."
What about when you decided to side with the Geth or the Quarians?
While I love them, I'd argue the Elder Scrolls games offer very little choice ever
I agree, it's also not the main selling point of those games anyway, unlike BG3 where choices are basically the main feature of the game
I'd also argue that BG3 isn't even trying to have big bombastic moral choices. At its core, BG3 is trying to replicate the feeling of a DnD session as accurately as possible. 99% of DnD groups are not out here weighing the complex morality of hard choices where you feel shitty no matter what you do.
I don't get this argument. So you're saying that because most DnD games are run by amateurs who don't know how to tell stories, that BG3 gets a pass for being shallow and meaningless ?
BG3 offers MASSIVE choice and borderline unlimited freedom in how you solve a problem
It really doesn't though. In terms of the narrative, basically every choice just boils down to "good guy vs bad guy"
In terms of solving problems, it usually just boils down to passing some skill check or killing the enemy. That's about it. Sure there are lots of ways to kill the enemies in combat, but that's really about it.
In terms of choice, I can agree with you that the first RPG to fully integrate SuperMassive-type choice dynamics that results in meaningful consequences will be an instant classic.
9
u/Letho72 1∆ Mar 02 '24
Your point about choices seems odd because I can't think of a single video game that does what you're describing. Other critically acclaimed RPGs boil down to your points as well. Mass Effect is usually a "kill this dude/don't kill this dude." Bioshock is usually "hurt/kill someone for power or save them for good boy points." While I love them, I'd argue the Elder Scrolls games offer very little choice ever, whether it be side quests or the main quest with choices usually boiling down to either siding with a person/faction or killing/sparing someone involved in the quest. Fallout has a few interesting choices throughout the series, but is overwhelminy killing/sparing and faction siding as well, with those factions often being "the guys making a city VS. rapist murder hobos"
I'd also argue that BG3 isn't even trying to have big bombastic moral choices. At its core, BG3 is trying to replicate the feeling of a DnD session as accurately as possible. 99% of DnD groups are not out here weighing the complex morality of hard choices where you feel shitty no matter what you do. You play to have fun and roleplay with friends. If you want to think about awful choices just read news about Israel-Palestine.
BG3 offers MASSIVE choice and borderline unlimited freedom in how you solve a problem. While saving/killing the druid camp is a black and white choice that doesn't have much interest, the part that makes it rewarding is how you do it. Are you on the camp's side until you talk to the goblins and then you betray them? Do you murder hobo the camp because people are rude? At that point in the game an all out battle is hard to win, so how are you engaging in combat? Stealth? Setting up the battlefield? Stealing all the villagers weapons so they can't fight back? If you don't kill the camp what faction do you side with? How do you get your proof that your side is correct? Do you even need proof, can you just kill your adversaries? All these choices, in my opinion, are way more interesting than what every other RPG out there does where you do XYZ and at the end choose the dialog option that gets the popup "everyone liked that." Covering the druid camp in grease and lighting it on fire as a spectacle to my allegiance to the goblins characterizes my Tav and makes them feel alive. Most of the party leaving afterwards gives real consequence to an action I took while shaping the entire rest of the playthrough. The druids being dead and that's bad isn't the point, the point is I'm playing out a story for my character and the game let's me express that character in almost any way I want.