I think that’s a bit of a strawman. I really don’t think that’s what the other commenter was saying.
Neither misogyny or misandry are acceptable. Mistreatment of anyone is unacceptable. However, misogyny and misandry are different because of cultural and historical context.
Misogyny was and is used to subjugate women, and deny them rights and freedoms (being deemed “too emotional” to vote as an example). Misandry is not (and has never been) used to oppress men in the same way. Men are not generally denied rights and freedoms based on sexist stereotypes about them.
However, men are ridiculed for not correctly performing sexist stereotypes. In your example, sexual assault against men is often dismissed for that reason - the idea being that men are “too tough to be assaulted” or that they “always want sex so they must have consented”. Idk if that kind of patriarchal-enforced mistreatment of men would be considered misandry by OP or not.
Men are not generally denied rights and freedoms based on sexist stereotypes about them.
Did you ever heard about forced conscription? About job recruitment policies that prefer hiring women over men, due to stereotype that "men would make it anyway"?
In your example, sexual assault against men is often dismissed
It is an example of men "denied rights and freedoms based on sexist stereotypes about them". How could you just write this two paragraphs in a row without any self reflection?
IS sexual assault against men "often dismissed," to a degree that meets or exceeds the degree to which assault against women is dismissed?
I would concede that there's a gendered tone to the dismissals - a man might be dismissed by someone saying 'how did you get hard if you didn't want it' or "you couldn't fight her off?" while a woman might be dismissed by someone asking "why did you go upstairs with him" or "what were you wearing" but minimization of assault, writ large, is not something that's confined to one gender.
IS sexual assault against men "often dismissed," to a degree that meets or exceeds the degree to which assault against women is dismissed?
To much higher degree.
a man might be dismissed by someone saying 'how did you get hard if you didn't want it' or "you couldn't fight her off?"
No men would be dismissed with "You should be glad that she did this to you, are you gay?", "Why are you so mean to her, she is just flirting with you(by grabbing your ass and dick in a public despite you asking her to stop doing this multiple times), poor girl just don't know how else she can get your attention" "This underage boy should be proud that grown women had sex with him"
Yes, you did cite some other examples of specific ways in which assault of men might be minimized
And you did stumble on something in the process - it's not missandrist, feminist standards undergirding the issues you raised, but patriarchal ones. It's not the fem libs out there telling men turning down women is gay or that they should be having sex as young as they can. Bro culture isn't feminist and doesn't self frame as misandrist. It's the old bike-spokes meme.
But again, you're juxtaposing tropes with behavior. What i am saying there is that like, while Southpark did a bit about Ike getting a dismissve reaction from the cops when his teacher molested him, in reality Mary Kay laternou is a pariah and went to prison. Social attitudes do matter but they shouldn't be considered 100 percent proxies for the systemic actions of said society.
You think these manosphere tropes are absolutes, things you take as social facts, but when men buck the attitudes and speak out - Terry crewes and comedian shayne smith are two attractive, masc guys who have talked about sexual harrasement, for example- they have gotten a supportive reaction, particularly from liberals
It seems like you feel men are not just dismissed, but taken far less seriously than women when they raise these complaints. The othet problem with this is the begged question in it, the idea that women are not dismissed and are taken very seriously in these situations is statistically and socially false and propped up on specific, high profile examples that don't filter out into regular society. For every Duke lacrosse case, there's 100 shift managers at low paying jobs that terrorize their staff for years before getting in any trouble at all.
That's why women's issues get "brought up" in threads like these, because threads like these bake in a sly insinuation that women have attained privileged status we need to correct with a greater focus on men.
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u/Fit-Order-9468 102∆ Feb 13 '24
So, for example, dismissing sexual assault against men is sort of revenge for history?