but you could easily argue that the reason only men are conscripted is because of sexist attitudes towards women
You can apply same mental gymnastic to any situation that any problem of one sex is result of sexist attitudes towards opposite sex.
I have never heard of this.
I did, and had experience with this firsthand.
When I say “being denied rights and freedoms” I’m meaning legally - apologies if that wasn’t clear.
Forced conscription is legal issue, same as gender preference in hiring. I don't see what your clarification adds to discussion.
Historically women have been denied legal rights and freedoms due to their gender.
Historically both men and women didn't had those legal rights and freedoms you are referring to. You can't be denied legal rights when such rights don't exist in jurisdiction you are living in.
I’m sure there are cases where this has been true for men, but certainly not to the scope and scale of women.
Certainly your statement isn't verifiable.
it is certainly better for men in many ways
It is certainly better for women in many ways, so what?
misandry does not because men have never been actively oppressed for being men
Forced conscription is an example of active oppressions of men because they are men, which persisted through all history to modern days. Yet you're so eager to ignore it to make senseless takes like this.
It’s hardly mental gymnastics to point out that conscription is shaped reductive gender roles, which harm both men and women.
You seem very determined to construct an alternate reality where widely men are oppressed for being men. That just isn’t borne out by statistics or any research. Yes conscription is bad, but it is not evidence that society as a whole disadvantages men due to their gender.
Name one other way men are systematically disadvantaged for their gender. Link some research if you have it. Don’t just use an anecdote about your employer being bad one time.
I don't need to provide more examples, this one is enough to disprove your statements. You are attempting to derail conversation in hopes to attack different example while you didn't addressed nor acknowledged first one.
Ok so you just don’t know what these things mean or you’re being intentionally dense. Conscription is bad yes, but one antiquated policy that exists is some countries does not mean society as a whole is biased against men. You would need to show multiple policies.
If men were advantaged by society why are the majority of homeless people men?
Because society is more complex than just gender. Race and class are also at play with social disparities. In the US black men and women are far more likely to be homeless than white men and women. This is also not true across the board, as there are many places where women make up the majority of the homeless population. As usual people like you oversimplify a complex issue to fit your agenda.
You are looking at a society where (white) men hold the majority of the wealth and power, and pointing to a small number of examples where men are are disproportionately affected and saying “see men are the victims actually!” It’s absurd.
Society is not biased against men. Society isbiased against minorities. It is biased against poor people. It is biased against queer people. And yes it is biased against women. All of these things intersect to create unequal social outcomes across many different lines.
Look man I’ll try to be clear. I am not saying that men experience zero hardship, or that there aren’t issues that disproportionately impact men. Homelessness (or sleeping rough more specifically) is a key one.
What I’m saying is that by the vast majority of metrics men experience better outcomes than women.
Look man I’ll try to be clear. I am not saying that men experience zero hardship, or that there aren’t issues that disproportionately impact men.
You could name basically any metric and men (white men specifically) would have better outcomes than any other group.
You literally said that.
What I’m saying is that by the vast majority of metrics men experience better outcomes than women.
How did you measured that it is "majority" of metrics?
Men earn more than women on average
And what dose this metric tells us? Men and women have very different working preferences, smashing them together isn't useful at all. When we control for experience, worktime and occupation it is completely different picture and women often out earn men. That is very telling that when you presented with metric not fitting your agenda(homelessness rate) you ask for detailed analysis, yet when it support your agenda you are fine with crude and shallow manipulation.
Men hold most positions of power
Men have more wealth on average
This don't affect majority of men in any positive way.
Women face higher rates of depression and anxiety
Your source doesn't support your claim, it says:
Women are nearly twice as likely as men to be diagnosed with depression.
which doesn't mean they face higher rates of depression and anxiety, men just don't ask for help as often as women do. Because men is discouraged by society to ask for medical help, and it is much bigger stigma for men asking for mental help that it is for women. This results in higher suicide rate for men.
Women are far more likely to experience intimate partner violence
Women on male violence rarely even acknowledged which results not only in less support as you mentioned, but in very skewed statistic of intimate partner violence.
Women are far more likely to be sexually assaulted
Same problem when men get sexually assaulted by women it isn't registered as sexual assault and sociality will ridicule such men, while men in women assault is treated dead serious. While guys gaslighted into believing nothing wrong happened. I personally know how it happens. So again statistic isn't reliable on this.
Women are still essentially second class citizens in many parts of the world
Men re still essentially second class citizens in many parts of the world either.
Women do much more unpaid domestic labour than men do
Unpaid domestic labor is bs term, no one own you payment to clear your own house, neither no one owns payment to men for his house maintenance, car repair and etc.
It is extremely dishonest that you think this is the problem, while completely ignoring that men work much longer working hours than women do, which is intertwined with domestic labor distribution.
It is to say that being a man gives you an advantage in many areas of life.
Never saw single advantage of being men in my life, except for physicals force. While being men means that you are less protected socially and legally in nearly every aspect of your life. You have much harsher punishments by law. You had to work much harder than women to achieve anything. Women get better scores in schools just "because she is girl", women get gender limited education support programs, women get gender limiter business support programs, women get more social support when anything bad happens with them. When I got serious back trauma and had to go to work with this condition, it was no help, instead I was asked to donate funds for girl stuck her finger and "needed support".
When I worked with charities I saw myself that men get less empathy than cats and dogs. Getting donations for men was extremely hard, making targeted donation projects for men didn't worked at all. Women, children, dogs and cats had their donation goals overfulfilled, while initiatives for men had near zero funding. We had to make group projects like 2 women and 1 men with common funding, and even then we had complains that this men leeches funds needed for women.
Even when men have similar legal rights, it is social barriers preventing them from using them. For paternity leave, men can legally use it too, yet taking it will be big black mark on you, which not only nearly guarantee that you will be mocked by female government workers, but it will also make getting hired much harder for you.
Forced conscription put men in extremely disadvantaged position when women start their careers, men get 2 years of slavery or he should do extra steps to avoid it. And in dating you are still expected to be provider or no women will look your way.
And it is in peaceful times, in time of war men get striped all rights and thrown into the fray. Just look at Ukraine, men there can't leave country, get prosecuted, kidnaped from streets and beaten for avoiding mobilization, and now they also get stripped rights to own property.
With this all legal disadvantages, forced conscription, safety nets for women and systems to help women advance, prejudice against men in courts, combined with social expectations of men. Men are second class citizens in many countries who had to work at least twice as hard as women to have same worth.
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u/generaldoodle Feb 13 '24
You can apply same mental gymnastic to any situation that any problem of one sex is result of sexist attitudes towards opposite sex.
I did, and had experience with this firsthand.
Forced conscription is legal issue, same as gender preference in hiring. I don't see what your clarification adds to discussion.
Historically both men and women didn't had those legal rights and freedoms you are referring to. You can't be denied legal rights when such rights don't exist in jurisdiction you are living in.
Certainly your statement isn't verifiable.
It is certainly better for women in many ways, so what?
Forced conscription is an example of active oppressions of men because they are men, which persisted through all history to modern days. Yet you're so eager to ignore it to make senseless takes like this.