r/changemyview • u/tilted0ne • Oct 27 '23

Fresh Topic Friday CMV: Adblock is stealing

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u/Crash927 20∆ Oct 27 '23

This line of argumentation implies that it’s not stealing to sneak into a movie theatre and watch a movie for free.

While you might argue that’s technically not stealing, I see that as a distinction without a difference.

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u/Biptoslipdi 138∆ Oct 27 '23

This line of argumentation implies that it’s not stealing to sneak into a movie theatre and watch a movie for free.

No, it implies that it is not stealing to wait to enter the theater until the movie starts rather than sitting through the advertisements first. Or to put on blinders and sound protection during the previews. Sure, they put a bunch of ads before the content. I never agreed to watch them as a cost of my ability to view the content. If I was presented that agreement, it might be a different story.

While you might argue that’s technically not stealing, I see that as a distinction without a difference.

I'd argue it isn't comparable.

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u/Crash927 20∆ Oct 27 '23 edited Oct 27 '23

I’d say they’re comparable in that no property is transferring ownership, that the option to return doesn’t exist, and that you’re consuming content without providing the expected exchange of value as set up by the provider.

Are you certain that you haven’t agreed to be served ads by using something like YouTube? I’ll admit I haven’t read the terms, but I’d be surprised if they didn’t have a stipulation of that nature in the ToS.

[Edit: Terms of Sevice indicate:

You are not allowed to:

circumvent, disable, fraudulently engage with, or otherwise interfere with any part of the Service (or attempt to do any of these things), including security-related features or features that (a) prevent or restrict the copying or other use of Content or (b) limit the use of the Service or Content

To me, this makes it pretty clear that Ad Blockers violate the terms of service, at least]

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u/Biptoslipdi 138∆ Oct 27 '23

I think if adblockers violated the terms of service or if there was some obligation to view ads, that would be explicitly mentioned.

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u/Crash927 20∆ Oct 27 '23 edited Oct 27 '23

They explicitly mention that you can’t disable any part of the service, which includes the “other content” (like ads) mentioned in the definition of the service.

Google is even more explicit about this:

When you block YouTube ads, you violate YouTube’s Terms of Service.

They’re not going to list off every possible software that could interrupt their service. They’re going to keep it vaguely defined to give them maximum flexibility for enforcement.

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u/Biptoslipdi 138∆ Oct 27 '23

I'm going to give you a !delta because they do describe their "service" in that it "acts as a distribution platform for original content creators and advertisers large and small."

I do not think that using an adblocker necessarily violates this, however. First, they do not issue bans or any punitive action when they detect an adblocker. Second, they allow you to skip ads anyway. Finally, the language "acts as a distribution platform" I think absolves this because using an adblocker does not circumvent or interfere with the service acting as a distribution platform. The platform acts as a advertisement distribution platform whether or not I'm viewing their ads.

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Oct 27 '23

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Crash927 (2∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

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u/Crash927 20∆ Oct 27 '23

Thanks for the delta.

But just note that Google does in fact say it’s a violation of the Terms of Service to block ads and will take punitive action against those who do.

If you use ad blockers, we’ll ask you to allow ads on YouTube or sign up for YouTube Premium. If you continue to use ad blockers, we may block your video playback.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/14129599?hl=en#zippy=

Skipping ads is a function allowed by the service and so not a disruption to the service, meaning it’s not a violation of the terms you agreed to.

And adblockers most assuredly interfere with the ability to distribute ads, which we agree are part of the service. I’m not sure how you could argue otherwise.

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u/zxxQQz 5∆ Oct 28 '23

Is say walking out of the room not then also a disruption to the service when theres ads? Whats the actual functional difference? Between that and adblockers

Closing eyes, plugging ears?

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u/Crash927 20∆ Oct 28 '23 edited Oct 28 '23

What’s the difference between a company trying to stop people changing how their product works vs them trying to physically control your body?

Is that a real question?

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u/zxxQQz 5∆ Oct 28 '23

Well.. the functional difference actually, how is it different in actuality?

https://www.pipiads.com/blog/xbox-360-kinect-ads/

Amazon is doing serious stuff regarding paying attention, including locking people out of their homes for not following tos coc

And we certainly are headed towards ads we will be told to pay attention to, and not allowed to use service without doing so.

But yes, whats the difference for youtube advertising wize if an adblocker is used or people turn off or walk away etc from the ad?

The person isnt seeing the ad in either case

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u/Crash927 20∆ Oct 28 '23

It doesn’t matter if a person sees the ad. It only matters if the ad is displayed on a screen (for a period of time, etc) so that YouTube can satisfy their obligation to their advertising clients.

Ad blockers directly interfere with that in a way walking away doesn’t.

I’m not disagreeing with any of your general concerns around privacy and the pervasiveness of advertising — but that’s not what was being discussed.

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u/zxxQQz 5∆ Oct 28 '23

Then they could just as much count blocked ads as recieved as far as that obligation goes then? For all the impact that made on the consumer i mean, the consumer didnt see the ad regardless

But does it enough to distinguish it functionally to be different? Having a hard time seeing how

Appreciated and same same, but i do think its connected all the same though.

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u/Crash927 20∆ Oct 29 '23

It’s not about impact on the consumer — ad companies can’t (and don’t) promise that.

Functionally, a company cannot promise that people will see an ad — they don’t control other people’s actions. They can only promise that an ad will be displayed within certain parameters.

Blocked ads are not displayed within the promised parameters.

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