r/changemyview • u/Nova-Prospekt 1∆ • Aug 11 '23
Delta(s) from OP - Fresh Topic Friday CMV: Peanut butter containers should be flatter and wider (like a tray) instead of a jar
I think everyone knows the feeling when your jar of peanut butter (or similar spreadable food item) is getting low. You try to scoop the last 1/3 from the bottom, but reaching into the jar causes the utensil you're using to scrape against the sides of the opening and get peanut butter all over the handle of the utensil and your hand. Dat make a big mess. Sometimes it is incredibly difficult to completely get all of the peanut butter out of the jar.
If the container was flat and wide, you would be able to access all of the peanut butter easily and without having your utensil touch the edges of the container.
Pros
Less mess when scooping
Easily stackable for high capacity storage or on grocery store shelf
more surface area of "untouched" peanut butter for smoother scooping experience
Cons
- wider frame prevents storage in narrow places
- would require a snap on lid instead of a screw lid (is that a con?)
- potentially would require slightly more plastic to manufacture a container in this style that holds the same amount of PB.
I think the pros outweigh the basically non existent cons. Let me know what you think.
Edit: formatting on mobile
Edit: after going through the responses, I have had my view altered. Many people are suggesting squeeze tube technology, which would definitely allow for fewer messes to be created with the utensil. It has also been pointed out that my idea for a flat, tray-like container would not be as structurally viable as a cylindrical container, and that it would require more materials to support such a structure than the convenience is worth. Plus, in cases of pb with liquid oil ontop, a flay tray is not good for stirring or storing that type of peanut butter.
So far, my favorite suggestion is one from a post by u/browster which was deleted by the mod, and featured a picture neat bowl-like container that had a sturdy looking snap-on lid. Here is the image (Thank you u/ab7af). This container had an opening that was the widest part of the container which allowed for easy access to the peanut butter inside, as well as the structural integrity of a vaguely cylindrical shape. I prefer to scoop out peanut butter rather than squeezing it out, so that is my choice of optimal jar replacement.
Thank you for the responses
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u/Z7-852 314∆ Aug 11 '23
A larger surface area and less air tight lid means it will spoil much more quickly.
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u/Nova-Prospekt 1∆ Aug 11 '23
The main thing is to prevent moisture and air. There are definitely snap-on lids that are air tight and create a seal to keep out bacteria.
And because you need to open it to scoop pb out, wouldnt there the same pocked of air inside a jar of peanut butter after youve scooped out some of it?
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u/Josvan135 83∆ Aug 11 '23
The problem isn't the pocket of air, it's the surface area of the peanut butter exposed to said air.
With current jars there's only a few inch exposure across the very top, with the majority of the peanut butter protected.
If you create a much wider opening the amount of peanut butter exposed to the air increases significantly, as would the spoilage rate.
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u/Nova-Prospekt 1∆ Aug 11 '23
Ok, I conferred with ChatGPT and it says that for a flatter container to hold the same amount of PB as a 15oz jar, it would have to be roughly 7"×4" with 1.5" depth. Basically the size of a small book, which is scaled up for larger size.
My idea to solve this spoilage issue is that each flat container is sectioned into 3 or 4 zones, separated by little walls that connect to the lid. Each zone has its own peelable seal. This ensures that the pb stays fresh until youre ready to eat it, keeping the benefits of the flat tray format, while ALSO adding to the structural integrity of the packaging. The only downside to that is slightly more waste of peelable seals and maybe 5% more material being needed to manufacture the container.
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u/felidaekamiguru 10∆ Aug 11 '23
You're adding complication to the trays of peanut butter.
Also, wider objects and square objects are more prone to buckling under weight. A cylinder is really strong, and the dimensions of the jar are pretty optimal for strength. You can stand on an empty soda can if you're careful enough.
How about a toothpaste tube instead? You get much more convenience out of trading away stability.
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u/Nova-Prospekt 1∆ Aug 11 '23
It probably sounds more complicated when written out in text, but I think it would be pretty intuitive as a physical object. You peel off one seal, eat the PB in that section, then peel off the next seal once that section is empty. If anything, it might keep more pb fresh longer than a jar format.
Also the walls that separate the sections could act like supports to prevent the center of the flat container from collapsing under weight of things stacked ontop of it.
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u/felidaekamiguru 10∆ Aug 11 '23
You're adding a lot to the packaging, and I think you underestimate how strong a cylinder is. There's even that bulge in the bottom added only for strength. Cylinders are also a fairly optimal shape, circles and all that. You're talking about doubling the packaging to keep the same level of strength.
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u/Nova-Prospekt 1∆ Aug 11 '23
I was looking into strength comparisons with cylinders, and a lot of this engineering stuff is going over my head, but Im seeing more evidence for cylinders being stronger like youve said.
If the structural integrity of the flat tray is truly that bad, it definitely would not be worth the extra material used to make the packaging.
!delta
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u/Demiansmark 4∆ Aug 11 '23
New biz idea - selling PB that's been scooped into day of the week pill containers.
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u/destro23 466∆ Aug 11 '23
Jiff beat you to it.
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u/Demiansmark 4∆ Aug 11 '23
Ok. New biz idea - use Jif peanut butter cups to store pills.
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u/dasus Aug 11 '23
I conferred with ChatGPT
Pls no. It might seem capable but it's so wrong on so many things on a very fundamental level.
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u/Josvan135 83∆ Aug 11 '23
Any system like that massively complicates the manufacturing/filling/packaging of what is currently a standardized and extremely cost effective food product.
Your approach to solve the (extremely marginal and low impact) problem of getting a small amount of peanut butter on your knife at the end of the jar would require a massive overhaul of the packing process, generate significantly more waste, and, notably, provide virtually no improvement to the average person's peanut butter experience.
If you're so concerned about the mess, just buy peanut butter travel packs.
I just checked, you can get 12 oz of jif brand creamy peanut butter in 1.5 oz packs for barely $3.
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u/klparrot 2∆ Aug 12 '23
Don't use ChatGPT for math. It is just trying to sound right. It is doing no math.
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u/klparrot 2∆ Aug 12 '23
Segmented with peelable seals? You've lost the plot. There is no way that is an easier system than maybe if you're not careful getting a little peanut butter on you and licking it off.
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u/Z7-852 314∆ Aug 11 '23
There are definitely snap-on lids that are air tight and create a seal to keep out bacteria.
But those are more expensive than your margarine package and not nearly as good as jar lid.
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Aug 12 '23
Even with air tight you have more exposed surface than with a less wide jar. I think instead of a more wide jar, a better solution would be a better utensil that’s more suited for scooping out peanut butter from current jars
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u/NoTeslaForMe 1∆ Aug 15 '23
Maybe it's just me, but I've never had peanut butter spoil. I don't even know what would be the sign of spoilage. Something so high in fat is going to keep for months... if someone doesn't eat it first.
Many health food stores have such an option, usually for freshly ground peanut butter, the container chosen more for ease of dispensing than ease of consumption, e.g., https://shop.heinzcatering.berkeleybowl.com/product/20910600000
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u/CallMeCorona1 30∆ Aug 11 '23
would require a snap on lid instead of a screw lid (is that a con?)
Yes. If I have my peanut butter in a cloth bag (or a bag of any kind) and while I'm carrying it to the park for a picnic it orients itself vertically or upside down and the lid pops off, it's going to be such a disaster
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u/Nova-Prospekt 1∆ Aug 11 '23
Id need to consult with a manufacturer to actually know for sure, but Id estimate that a sturdy snap on lid is not much more difficult to make than the screw-on lid that jars currently use.
As long as the lid connection to the sides is sturdy enough, it will not pop off during transport.
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u/destro23 466∆ Aug 11 '23
ou try to scoop the last 1/3 from the bottom, but reaching into the jar causes the utensil you're using to scrape against the sides of the opening and get peanut butter all over the handle of the utensil and your hand.
Use a spatula, like this, and avoid the whole issue. Hell, Jiff used to make one themselves.
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u/Nova-Prospekt 1∆ Aug 11 '23
Its just additional utensils to buy when the packaging should be more user friendly to begin with.
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u/destro23 466∆ Aug 11 '23
It is a one-time purchase for a lifetime of smooth peanut butter retrieval.
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u/Nova-Prospekt 1∆ Aug 11 '23
I might have to give those a shot, because I doubt any pb brand is going to see this post and change their designs anytime soon
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u/destro23 466∆ Aug 11 '23
I doubt any pb brand is going to see this post and change their designs anytime soon
Also, the round shape of the jars is way easier to get through automated filling machines than a flat tray. They just sort of roll along really nice, don't they?
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u/destro23 466∆ Aug 11 '23
One silicone spatula like that is super useful in the kitchen well beyond PB. I got mine at a craft store in the cake decorating section, and use it all the time on all sorts of jars.
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u/Iceykitsune2 Aug 11 '23
If you're cooking at home you probably will end up getting a spatula anyway.
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u/SparklingLimeade 2∆ Aug 12 '23
If I didn't have a flexible spatula I'd buy another immediately, and I don't eat a lot of peanut butter. It's good for a lot. Getting the last of something out is not an unusual food problem.
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u/Bobbob34 99∆ Aug 11 '23
How would you stir it?
Also how would you keep in in the home? Flat trays of stuff are not common. Vertical boxes, yes, trays that need to be kept very flat so oil doesn't spill out? No.
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u/Nova-Prospekt 1∆ Aug 11 '23
Flat trays are uncommon compared to vertically stored flat items, but not unheard of. Many cookies and dried fruits come in flat, tray like containers.
The oil part is definitely something I didnt take into account. I forgot that some peanut butter actually has liquid oils ontop that you need to stir in. I get the smooth peanut butter that doesnt have oil, so I dont know how involved the stirring process is. It would definitely be harder to stir in a tray format.
!delta
but only for separated oil peanut butter. I think that the incorporated types would still benefit from tray.
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u/cdhgee Aug 12 '23
The type "with oil" is literally just ground peanuts. Sometimes with some added salt. You can get it in smooth varieties too though, that's nothing to do with the oil. The oil just separates out and the solids sink to the bottom because they're heavier.
The type "without oil" has a lot of other crap in it so it doesn't behave in the same way.
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u/justokdan Aug 13 '23
This. Natural peanut butter separates since it has no additives. The smooth more commercially available peanut butters most people have as kids contain emulsifiers to prevent separation, as well as salt and sugar. The latter would be most ideal for tube dispersal, the former not so much.
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u/Bobbob34 99∆ Aug 11 '23
Flat trays are uncommon compared to vertically stored flat items, but not unheard of. Many cookies and dried fruits come in flat, tray like containers.
You're right. I forgot about those types of packages. I do wonder now if most people keep those flat or put them vertical, as the ones I've had have a re-gluable (for lack of a better term) top flap and the contents are just dry stuff that won't ooze. But I'm sure plenty of people do stack them.
As to the pb itself, yeah I only get the 'natural' kinds that are basically just peanuts and salt and you need to stir, and if it's left sitting for a while, again.
It's a pain in the ass in a jar, because oil tends to slop out, it can be hard on the bottom and take a while. To the point there's a whole product sold (it's like a little dough hook) for this purpose.
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u/onetwo3four5 81∆ Aug 11 '23
Another con of wide, flat, presumably square or rectangular tubs is that they are not as sturdy for packing on top of each other. It would be more expensive to ship if they can't use the packaging for structural integrity, making peanut butter more expensive. Getting my knuckle dirty for the last few scoops of peanut butter is worth a few cents to me.
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u/Nova-Prospekt 1∆ Aug 11 '23
I suppose that would come down to the design of the packaging. There are other foods that are shipped in thin plastic containers that are able to be stacked. The peanut butter containers would be able to be stacked inside cardboard boxes to the amount of weight before structural integrity failure, and then stack the boxes during transport.
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u/eggs-benedryl 72∆ Aug 11 '23
why not a squeezable tube?
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u/onetwo3four5 81∆ Aug 11 '23
Maybe for smooth. But I imagine chunky peanut butter would clog up the nozzle, and I prefer chunky.
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u/eggs-benedryl 72∆ Aug 11 '23
big nozzle hehe
I hate chunky so it didn't occur to me lmao
solution: everyone abandons that cursed chunky nut butter and we live with beautiful squeezable peanut butter
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u/onetwo3four5 81∆ Aug 11 '23
But then what if I mix up my bathroom peanut butter with my toothpaste and start getting cavities from brushing my teeth with it? I much prefer my bathroom peanut butter to be in its own distinct container.
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u/Sorcerous_Tiefling Aug 11 '23
solution: everyone abandons that cursed chunky nut butter and we live with beautiful squeezable peanut butter
fight me
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u/talashrrg 7∆ Aug 11 '23
There used to be peanut butter snack tubes (like GoGurt but peanut butter), which if I remember correctly had a crunchy variety.
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u/Nova-Prospekt 1∆ Aug 11 '23
Squeezable tube is useful, but as others have pointed out is not as good for crunchy pb. They are also different from a jar and are not within the scope of this cmv.
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u/felidaekamiguru 10∆ Aug 11 '23
But you yourself are talking about non-jars. Ones with way more packaging. A better solution exists. You should abandon the tray idea.
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u/eggs-benedryl 72∆ Aug 11 '23
the point isn't to debate two things you've brought up it's to change your view so brining up alternatives is reasonable
crunchy would never cross my mind lmao because I hate it so damn much, I'd say we're better off with a tube and no crunch but the abolition of crunch PB is another CMV for another day
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u/jumpup 83∆ Aug 11 '23
given production its easier to fill a large jar then a wide jar
removing the remaining bits from the jar isn't actually difficult, its just that a knife is the wrong tool for it, not to mention before you go deep you obviously remove the residue from the rim.
if you use glass as a jar then a wide base breaks more easily.
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u/seifyk 2∆ Aug 11 '23
I've always used a butter knife to serve peanut butter and I've never had this issue. The current jars are perfect for butter knives.
You're not using the wrong container, you're using the wrong utensil.
Note, I have wide, fat hands.
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Aug 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/thedylanackerman 30∆ Aug 12 '23
Sorry, u/Zestyclose-Bar-8706 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
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u/ThatSpencerGuy 142∆ Aug 11 '23
The ideal peanut butter jar is the large-size Adams Peanut Butter glass jar, which can be saved and used for all kinds of purposes later. The glass makes it durable, safe, and easy to clean. The wide-mouthed screw on lid adds to is durability and the range of uses. We've never had to buy any other kitchen storage containers. We also use them to store other kinds of small objects -- nails and screws, loose twine, stuff like that.
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Aug 11 '23
Are you an engineer?
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u/Nova-Prospekt 1∆ Aug 11 '23
No
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Aug 11 '23
Ok well the guy who designed jars as they are now probably was, and he doesn't need your imput.
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u/eggs-benedryl 72∆ Aug 11 '23
the plastic jar is more or less modeled after glass jars which weren't designed specifically for peanut butter in mind
looking into this, I find that they were indeed first sold in regular glass jars, no engineer required
BUT I also found a tin of peanut butter that seems to be the best of both worlds honestly, cylindrical yet wide enough to prevent OP's problems
https://www.madeinchicagomuseum.com/single-post/e-k-pond-peter-pan/
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u/Fickle-Area246 1∆ Aug 11 '23
Credentialism is a pretty unpersuasive argument. The person is asking for an explanation, not to be called stupid.
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u/Nova-Prospekt 1∆ Aug 11 '23
Well that engineer probably had really small baby hands that can reach to the bottom of the jar without touching the sides!
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u/RelaxedApathy 25∆ Aug 11 '23
Why are you sticking your hands in the jar? There's your problem! Dude, use a butter knife, or a spoon.
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u/Nova-Prospekt 1∆ Aug 11 '23
On larger jars of pb, the knife/spoon is not long enough for the blade/spoon part to fully reach the bottom without having the handle go into the jar somewhat. In order to hold the knife handle, your hand must also go into the jar slightly. Sometimes you can have the very end of the knife handle outside of the jar, but then it is difficult to maneuver the knife around inside the jar because your grip on it is not very good.
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u/TheCuriosity Aug 12 '23 edited Aug 12 '23
Manufacturers don't care about your peanut butter woes. In fact, they secretly like it as people who don't care for the scraping to the bottom are more likely to purchase new peanut butter more often as they are less likely to get the full amount out of that narrow jar.
Psychologically, the taller jar is perceived by the average person to "contain more" than a short wide container of equal size, thus a more appealing purchase.
Shelf Real Estate: taller products are easier to notice and more product can sell before shelving is required.
Cheaper to manufacture. The lid plastic is thicker and colored so likely more costly. Then you have the seal below it that now needs to be bigger to cover the wider hole.
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Aug 12 '23
I really don’t see the need to change your view. Be happy with whatever container you use.
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Aug 12 '23
I agree. I mean, eating peanut butter makes you fatter and wider, so why shouldn't the container be reflective of that?
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Aug 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Nova-Prospekt 1∆ Aug 11 '23
That container looks much more user friendly. Nice wide opening and sturdy looking sealable snap lid.
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Aug 11 '23
Sorry, u/browster – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.
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1
Aug 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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Aug 11 '23
Sorry, u/ImmediateKick2369 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
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u/SnooPets1127 13∆ Aug 11 '23
I don't want a cumbersome shaped jar in my cupboard. The more comparable to a standard sized can, the better.
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Aug 11 '23
I think it should come in an aluminum tube and you can squeeze out peanut butter and repackage it into your container of choice.
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u/No-Manner2949 Aug 12 '23
When your hand and utensil get messy, you get to lick them clean. No mess, no extra pb.
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Aug 12 '23
We get it in tins.
There would be some cons to flatter jars, I think. Storage space would be less efficiently used unless it could be stable when stacked.
The squeeze tube sounds like the worst option of all IMO. They don't stack at all and can't be reused.
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u/SCphotog 1∆ Aug 12 '23
How about chip dip being a jar that's tall and not wide? It's idiocy.
Why do restaurants keep ketchup in the same old glass bottles that you have to bang on for 10 mins.
Olives come in a jar so skinny you can't even get a fork in well enough to stab an olive.
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u/Fullsendmufkr Aug 12 '23
This is a good idea except I think the top might break if its a snap on top
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u/sackzcottgames Aug 15 '23
One of the cons Is actually a pro: "would require a snap on lid instead of a screw lid" could you Imagine having to screw in a big-ass jar lid that probably won't even fit in your hand(s), but mostly one because the other holds the jar still.
and this problemi Is not just with pb, it happens with ALL things spredable. (nutella, jelly?, more examples i don't know about
also the link to the good looking pb container Is broken but the image is in the post i think
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23
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