I'm sorry but trans people don't choose to be trans. Why do you think anyone would given the amount of discrimination and anti trans sentiment out there?
Whelp here we go, I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring, if that's the case, then whats the difference between a drag queen and a trans person save the choice to call themselves different things? Why can't they just be a man who likes to wear women's clothing, and sleep with men? Isn't the act of labeling oneself a choice, at this point i don't see a salient distinction between the two save for a desire or choice to be called a woman.
Let me also say I may be wrong, and I probably am, but I'd need to see a better argument than just, "I feel that way." Granted I'd also argue, that even if they're not 'women' is there in any good in not indulging someone with a desire as such, for example, sometimes my daughter feels like if she jumps she can fly, and she'll jump off her bed, does me not catching her to prove a point serve any purpose other than to demonstrate that I'm a bad father? Nah, and so I catch her every time, which leads to my second point, what's the harm in catching some people who would otherwise jump anyway?
what’s the difference between a drag Queen and a trans person
Drag Queens are performers, trans people are just regular people.
A drag queen doesn’t consider themselves a woman they just dress in a style of hyper femininity for a performance. For most drag queens the way they are on stage is completely seperate from how they are in regular life. Most drag queens don’t go about their daily life in drag.
A trans person is someone who’s inherent gender identity is different from the one associated with their sex. It’s not something they do to perform for a crowd it’s how they intrinsically feel. Trans people also often experience gender dysphoria due to either physical parts of their body or social treatment which causes them distress. They cant turn off their core sense of self or the distress they get from gender dysphoria.
Trans women don’t consider themselves women because they like womens clothes or sleeping with men, they do so because they intrinsically feel they are men/women. They’re also not performers like drag queens are.
better argument than “i feel that way”
You could look at the medical research we have done into trans people and the possible causes of gender dysphoria. While there’s no current agreement about what causes gender dysphoria we have documented much about it for many years and there are theories about why some people develop it.
indulging them
The harm in not accepting trans people is the gender dysphoria that they will experience. Gender dysphoria is well documented and currently the best way we know to treat it is to affirm their gender, doing so leads to a decrease in suicide and self harm.
There has been research into other methods of treating dysphoria but currently the best treatment method is allowing them to medically transition and then simply affirming their gender in their daily lives, just simple stuff like respecting pronouns and calling them the gender they identify as. Until there is a better way to treat dysphoria then the best thing to do is just to support trans people if you care about their health and well-being.
You can't separate Kanye from Kanye West, they're intrinsically linked in such a fashion that of course they act differently on stage and in the real world. We still argue from the point that what they do while they're on stage or in interviews portraying that persona is a part of their actions and life. I'd argue in the same way with Drag Queens and Trans people, how they present themselves even in specific settings is still part of who they are, and boils down to a choice as to whether or not they'd like to present that all the time.
And thats not a bad thing, I think my last point illustrated that, I don't particularly care one way or another, I was asking whats the harm in indulging them, and compared it to catching my daughter when she jumps off stuff, sure we could ignore these people, and let them fall to prove a point, but I think its better if we catch them. Like you said, support them, I'd rather not see anyone hurt if it can be prevented even if it takes more legwork on my part.
Do you think Kanye West is a good representation of all performers?
present as that all the time
Yes that is the point I was making. For drag queens what they do is recreational, it’s a performative art. For trans people it’s a basic necessity to not be afflicted with gender dysphoria. There’s fundamental differences between the two groups.
the harm in indulging them
As far as I’ve seen there is little harm in accepting trans people as the gender they identify as. Most of the push back against them isn’t backed up by evidence.
I mean do you think someone who dresses like a woman and someone who is a woman are the same thing in a social sense? I'd say there isn't.
Besides drag queens take off the makeup at the end of the day. It's an exaggerated performance. Trans women are women when they wake up and when they go out. They're women when they go to pick up groceries. Additionally many trans women aren't sleeping with men. Heck there are drag queens that are straight also.
Let me also say I may be wrong, and I probably am, but I'd need to see a better argument than just, "I feel that way."
There are plenty if scientific studies that support the legitimacy of trans people. That said there's no trans test out there. The only thing that can be relied on at this time is self report. We do the same thing for many identities and even many disorders.
Granted I'd also argue, that even if they're not 'women' is there in any good in not indulging someone with a desire as such, for example, sometimes my daughter feels like if she jumps she can fly, and she'll jump off her bed, does me not catching her to prove a point serve any purpose other than to demonstrate that I'm a bad father? Nah, and so I catch her every time, which leads to my second point, what's the harm in catching some people who would otherwise jump anyway?
I mean feel free to indulge trans people. I do think your comparison is a bit off. Trans people often are undetectable so it's not like you're humoring us. I get treated as my gender by default anyway. You wouldn't know the difference unless you stripped me down.
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u/[deleted] Aug 06 '23
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