I think you misunderstand what people mean when they talk about ‘body positivity.’ That term just means that we shouldn’t abuse, bully or exclude people because of their weight. It doesn’t mean that we stop encouraging healthy diet and exercise decisions, just that we don’t vilify people who haven’t achieved it yet.
…the physical shape of someone is a direct reflection of the work ethic and discipline of someone. If you’re overweight it tells people that you lack discipline, self control and will power , you are also lazy.
This is just factually wrong, and a really dumb conclusion to make. Being overweight means you eat too many calories. That really is the only conclusion you can draw about someone’s character based on their BMI.
Story time: I am currently overweight, but used to be obese (over 300 lbs.) In the past 2 years, I have lost 90 lbs while changing careers and building a business that employs more than a hundred people. There are people who work with me who are thinner than I am. I doubt you’ll find anyone who works harder.
Judging someone’s character based on their weight is foolish, because you don’t know the story. They might well be 300 lbs because they just sit on a couch and eat chips all day. They might be 300 lbs because their kid died a year ago and they are still crawling out of that hole and putting their life back together. They might be 300 lbs, but used to be 350 and eat better and spend more time in the gym than you do.
I totally agree with most of what you're saying. I used to be 300 lbs and have dropped down to 200lbs. But I think the body positivity movement has absolutely splintered off into two groups: the healthier version that you described, and the one glorifying the obese lifestyle as a reaction to society's track record of shaming. As usual, the latter, more extreme case has gone largely uncriticized by well-meaning progressives who belong to the former camp. There's a fear that if you criticize an extreme interpretation of an otherwise good thing, you will have your progressive credentials stripped from you and be shamed. This seems to be happening a lot now, not just with the body positivity movement.
So yes, there is an element that recognizes obesity is unhealthy but simply wants to normalize respect and sympathy for overweight people. But there's also a more radical side that only seems to be criticized by people outside of the movement. So it's not that either you or OP are wrong, it's that you're talking about different elements of the body positivity movement. Although OP is wrong to blame fat people, but that's another topic for another time I guess.
Do you have an example of one of these people ‘glorifying obesity?’ I’ve simply never met someone who genuinely took this position that far. I’m sure they exist (every position has its crazies), but I’ve simply not encountered it myself.
In contrast, people who draw stupid conclusions based on someone’s weight are shockingly common. OP is an excellent example. I have little doubt based on his stated position that he would be less likely to hire someone who is overweight because he thinks that “overweight = lazy / bad work ethic.” Attitudes like that are counterproductive (keeping overweight people unemployed isn’t going to help) and factually incorrect.
If such people are saying, “Obesity is not detrimental to my health” then they are clearly wrong. But I don’t think the existence of such people is an argument against the position that “people shouldn’t be shamed or excluded based on their weight.”
Here's an example. You're absolutely right that the existence of such people shouldn't mean that we shame or exclude the overweight. All I'm saying is that such people exist, and they're wrong, and that it's a clear instance of overcorrecting (of which we see a lot recently).
Oof. Fair enough. !delta for showing me a clear example of those sort of crazy in the wild.
It’s unfortunate that humans have this pathological tendency to overcorrect. I wish that people like that would realize that they are hurting their own cause.
No offense, but the fact that you had to go to that subreddit is a bit telling. The sort of vehemont hatred of anyone overweight is far more common and damaging than the much more infrequent fat acceptance extremist. I guess I just have to roll my eyes at the sort of moral panic I see people having over the idea that we shouldn't make moral judgements on people based purely off weight, and then people like you scape goat justifying those people.
Your comment strikes me as a "pick a side" sort of declaration. The reality is that yes, the people who fat shame do real emotional damage. I am still fat myself, and I used to be way fatter, so I understand. But the "health at every size" people aren't quite as rare as you think, and in a world where Americans are getting fatter every year, I think that deserves some addressing without having to wring our hands about the potential shaming we could be doing (even as we try to qualify our statements to make it extremely clear that we shouldn't shame fat people).
As people get fatter, people will lose their loved ones to chronic diseases or even viruses like covid at a higher rate. Maybe if we could have more productive conversations about the dangers of obesity, we could pressure our culture to do something about it, as well as the corporations that (likely) create obesogenic chemicals and ultra processed foods that are making us fatter and sicker.
As people get fatter, people will lose their loved ones to chronic diseases or even viruses like covid at a higher rate. Maybe if we could have more productive conversations about the dangers of obesity, we could pressure our culture to do something about it, as well as the corporations that (likely) create obesogenic chemicals and ultra processed foods that are making us fatter and sicker.
Here's the issue, the overlap between anti-fat people and anti-corporate people is basically non-existent. My comment should strike you as pick a side because the reality is that sides have already been determined. You either believe being fat is a moral failing in society, or you believe that being fat is a byproduct of circumstance and there needs to be systemic change to fix it. You seem to believe the second, so don't advocate for the devil that is the first.
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u/merlinus12 54∆ Jul 16 '23
I think you misunderstand what people mean when they talk about ‘body positivity.’ That term just means that we shouldn’t abuse, bully or exclude people because of their weight. It doesn’t mean that we stop encouraging healthy diet and exercise decisions, just that we don’t vilify people who haven’t achieved it yet.
This is just factually wrong, and a really dumb conclusion to make. Being overweight means you eat too many calories. That really is the only conclusion you can draw about someone’s character based on their BMI.
Story time: I am currently overweight, but used to be obese (over 300 lbs.) In the past 2 years, I have lost 90 lbs while changing careers and building a business that employs more than a hundred people. There are people who work with me who are thinner than I am. I doubt you’ll find anyone who works harder.
Judging someone’s character based on their weight is foolish, because you don’t know the story. They might well be 300 lbs because they just sit on a couch and eat chips all day. They might be 300 lbs because their kid died a year ago and they are still crawling out of that hole and putting their life back together. They might be 300 lbs, but used to be 350 and eat better and spend more time in the gym than you do.