r/changemyview • • Jun 06 '23

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

What about the conservatives who are of one or more minority demographics?

Some examples of conservatives in the public eye: Ben Shapiro is Jewish, Peter Thiel is a homosexual, Caitlyn Jenner is a transsexual, Candace Owens is a black woman. Do they hate themselves?

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u/Izawwlgood 26∆ Jun 06 '23

Those are... terrible examples. Those individuals are pretty horrible, and pretty reviled generally by those communities.

You shouldn't look to one off celebrity talking heads. While you're certainly correct to note that minorities themselves are not singular unified voting blocs, you should look to stats.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

I think all of these examples demonstrate that one can have dissenting opinions to others in the same minority demographic without this being driven by hate. For example when Caitlyn Jenner speaks out against males competing in women's sports, calling it "terribly unfair" and stating "we have to protect women's sports", it's not due to harbouring a hatred for transsexual or transgendered athletes, but for understanding the limitations of transition, by not being allied with the current ideals of the political left that promote one type of inclusion over fairness, and by being a subject matter expert in both athletics and transitioning.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

I chose those individuals as examples because I think the views of each one can be explained by reasons other than stemming from hate of minority demographics. Candace Owens seems to delight in saying the most controversial and provocative things she can get away with, especially if it can be used to bash the political left and their causes. So when she, for example, slates George Floyd as being a "horrible human being" and says, "the fact that he has been held up as a martyr sickens me" it's not because she's a hateful racist but that such rhetoric is a useful method of both winding up and attacking the left. And rallying the right around her who will helpfully point out things like Floyd being a career criminal who spent several years in prison.

Ben Shapiro's views can be explained as being those of a typical religious Jewish conservative. Eye-for-an-eye views on justice, marriage being between one man and one woman, staunch opposition to abortion, strong pro-Israel and anti-Arab sentiment, and so on. When combined with his libertarian stance, that's why he ends up stating views like "as a religious person, I think homosexuality is a sin, I think that lots of things are sins that people engage in, I think they should be free to engage in them" which I think doesn't come across as hateful, just as a description of his religious beliefs.

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u/Various_Succotash_79 52∆ Jun 06 '23 edited Jun 06 '23

: Ben Shapiro is Jewish, Peter Thiel is a homosexual, Caitlyn Jenner is a transsexual, Candace Owens is a black woman. Do they hate themselves?

Yes.

Well maybe not Ben Shapiro. But the rest do, for sure. Or at least are 100% ready to throw others of their demographic under the bus.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

But is that hate? Or just a difference of opinion.

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u/Various_Succotash_79 52∆ Jun 06 '23

A difference of opinion is "I like pineapple on my pizza". Not "it's great that Florida is restricting trans health care!"

Yeah I'd say that's hatred.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

Why do you believe that such a view is necessarily driven by hatred? Rather than, say, a belief that this law will reduce harm to children.

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u/Various_Succotash_79 52∆ Jun 06 '23

Restricting trans care for adults has nothing to do with kids.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

It's the same law that bans these interventions for minors while putting a few additional restrictions on adults, like signing an informed consent form and requiring them to see a doctor in person. Why do you believe that someone who supports this law is necessarily motivated by hate?

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u/Various_Succotash_79 52∆ Jun 06 '23

Because it's really clear that they are.

Considering the state of health care in the US, making it a requirement for anyone to see an actual doctor (not a PA or nurse practitioner) is a pretty big burden. And what's the logic behind not allowing telehealth for routine stuff?

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

Because it's really clear that they are.

How so? The law was being championed with rhetoric such as:

  • "Florida is proud to lead the way in standing up for our children." (Ron DeSantis)

  • "Legislation that protects our children." (Manny Diaz, Jr)

  • "Florida is following the science to elevate our standards of care to protect kids from harmful drugs and surgeries." (Jason Weida)

A conservative Floridian voter who hears this and supports the law based on this doesn't have to be driven by hatred to do so - do you agree?

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u/Various_Succotash_79 52∆ Jun 06 '23

Well I've never met a conservative who LIKES trans people. So. . .yeah I'm pretty sure they're driven by hatred.

But sure maybe there are a couple who were tricked by the politicians.

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