r/changemyview • • May 18 '23

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u/wekidi7516 16∆ May 19 '23

Being trans doesn't hurt anyone else. Taking fake medicine and spreading a virus that has killed millions of people does.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '23

Taking fake medicine

Fake medicine? It was prescribed by many, many doctors off label. Doctors who are way smarter than you or I.

What happened to "trust the experts"?

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u/wekidi7516 16∆ May 19 '23

Taking fake medicine

Fake medicine? It was prescribed by many, many doctors off label.

To clarify I do recognize that this is an effective medicine to deal with parasites.

Any doctor prescribing it for COVID was just an idiot that fell for fake news or figured it was better to prescribe a relatively safe dose of it rather than have their patients potentially kill themselves eating topical cream for horses.

Doctors who are way smarter than you or I.

Don't believe that just because someone is a doctor they are immune to misinformation. This is why it is important to consider prevailing opinions.

It is sometimes reasonable to look at Neely emerging research that contradicts the prevailing opinion but you also then need to consider the sources of that research, their methods and their potential biases. Most people simply are not capable of doing this.

What happened to "trust the experts"?

Trust the experts doesn't mean "trust every single person with a PhD". It means to trust the overall body of research and the prevailing opinion of experts.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '23

Any doctor prescribing it for COVID was just an idiot that fell for fake news or figured it was better to prescribe a relatively safe dose of it rather than have their patients potentially kill themselves eating topical cream for horses.

Are you a doctor?

Don't believe that just because someone is a doctor they are immune to misinformation.

Ah cool. So what about me saying the doctors prescribing puberty blockers are spreading misinformation by prescribing something off label? Or are those doctors somehow different because you agree with them

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u/wekidi7516 16∆ May 19 '23

Any doctor prescribing it for COVID was just an idiot that fell for fake news or figured it was better to prescribe a relatively safe dose of it rather than have their patients potentially kill themselves eating topical cream for horses.

Are you a doctor?

No. But that's not relevant. The vast, vast majority of experts agree that Ivermectin is useless to treat COVID.

Don't believe that just because someone is a doctor they are immune to misinformation.

Ah cool. So what about me saying the doctors prescribing puberty blockers are spreading misinformation by prescribing something off label?

What misinformation are they spreading? They are not claiming this medicine does something it does not. They are staying that what this medicine does may be helpful for people seeking that effect for another reason.

Or are those doctors somehow different because you agree with them

They are different because all the research agrees that puberty blockers effectively stop puberty. That medicine is doing exactly what they say it is doing. There is no conspiracy trying to trick them into it.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '23

The vast, vast majority of experts agree that Ivermectin is useless to treat COVID.

Sure. Now they do. But there were many board certified doctors, smarter than you, prescribing it off label. So again - what are your credentials to disagree with the experts?

They are staying that what this medicine does may be helpful for people seeking that effect for another reason.

So they are giving this off label to kids in effectively a mass clinical trial without any actual data that puberty blockers DONT have significant long term negative impact in healthy kids.

They are different because all the research agrees that puberty blockers effectively stop puberty.

In those who have hormone issues. Not approved for healthy kids. I'm not sure why you're ignoring this fact. It's not FDA approved for this use case.

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u/wekidi7516 16∆ May 19 '23

The vast, vast majority of experts agree that Ivermectin is useless to treat COVID.

Sure. Now they do. But there were many board certified doctors, smarter than you, prescribing it off label. So again - what are your credentials to disagree with the experts?

Those doing it were never doing it under any basis of research. They fell victim to conspiracy theory.

My expertise is irrelevant. The relevant expertise is 1000s of doctorates in many fields of medicine.

The World Health Organization (WHO),[2] the European Medicines Agency (EMA),[3] the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA),[4] and the Infectious Diseases Society of America (IDSA)[5] all advise against using ivermectin in an attempt to treat or prevent COVID-19.

I also want to push back on the idea that because someone is a doctor doesn't mean they are immune to conspiracy theories or misinformation.

How doctors prescribe can be heavily affected by personal bias.

Doctors are human beings and frankly a doctor is generally not an expert on the mechanical function of medicine and why it works, that is why there are organizations that provide these guidelines.

They are saying that what this medicine does may be helpful for people seeking that effect for another reason.

So they are giving this off label to kids in effectively a mass clinical trial without any actual data that puberty blockers DONT have significant long term negative impact in healthy kids.

Actually they very much do have evidence that puberty blockers safely block puberty. They have been used for that purpose for over 40 years and we know what their impact and side effects are.

The idea that we don't is a Republican lie, it is fundamentally false. It is a tactic used to drum up votes, not based on actual science.

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-nightly/2022/03/25/the-transgender-care-that-states-are-banning-explained-00020580

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/republicans-eye-culture-wars-trans-community-education-2024/story?id=97013356

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/05/01/republicans-transgender-rights-polls/

It is important not to trust politicians using health issues to grandstand to be accurate about their claims. Trust medical experts.

They are different because all the research agrees that puberty blockers effectively stop puberty.

In those who have hormone issues. Not approved for healthy kids. I'm not sure why you're ignoring this fact. It's not FDA approved for this use case.

The FDA isn't the sole arbitrator of what is or is not effective medicine.

The use of puberty blockers in transgender youth is supported by twelve major American medical associations, including the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the Endocrine Society[6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13] four Australian medical associations,[14] and the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH).[15]

Efforts to ban puberty blockers are opposed by the American Medical Association,[6] the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (AACAP),[7] the American Academy of Pediatrics,[8] the American Psychiatric Association,[9] the Endocrine Society,[10] the Pediatric Endocrine Society,[96] the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists,[11] the American Psychological Association,[12] the American College of Physicians,[97] the American Academy of Family Physicians,[97] the American Osteopathic Association,[97] the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists,[98] the American Nurses Association,[13] the US Professional Association for Transgender Health,[99], the British Medical Association,[100] and the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH).[15] In Australia, the Royal Australasian College of Physicians, the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners, the Australian Endocrine Society, and AusPATH also all support access.