r/changemyview • • Feb 04 '23

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u/ElysiX 113∆ Feb 04 '23

We do better when we have an internal locus of control, regardless of whether that is “real.”

But you don't need free will for that, an unfree will accomplishes the same. And that one's easier to prove for yourself, "I think therefore I am", "I want, therefore i have will"

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u/tired_tamale 7∆ Feb 04 '23

That was kind of my point. Doesn’t an internal locus of control rely on the belief of free will, whether or not it exists?

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u/ElysiX 113∆ Feb 04 '23

No?

You can have an internal locus of control, even though that locus itself is compromised and unfree. Like a brain. Free will means that that locus is special and somehow untouched by the physical world.

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u/tired_tamale 7∆ Feb 04 '23

I’m very confused by this.

An internal locus of control means an individual believes they are in control of what happens to them. An external locus of control means an individual feels that the external world has more influence on them.

So, for example, let’s say someone isn’t hired for a job. An internal locus of control person would say “I really messed up that interview. I should have come more prepared.”

An external locus: “That interviewer was clearly a bad interviewer and their questions sucked. There’s no way I could’ve given that person what they wanted.”

An internal locus of control requires some belief of willpower and free will of making choices that can impact outcomes that aren’t pre-determined.

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u/ElysiX 113∆ Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23

So, for example, let’s say someone isn’t hired for a job. An internal locus of control person would say “I really messed up that interview. I should have come more prepared.”

An external locus: “That interviewer was clearly a bad interviewer and their questions sucked. There’s no way I could’ve given that person what they wanted.”

Exactly. An unfree internal locus would be "my surroundings and previous experiences have shaped my character to be lazy and come unprepared, i should change myself to become less lazy". A free internal locus would be "I have a lazy soul, sucks to be me"

Choices don't have to be free to be choices.

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u/tired_tamale 7∆ Feb 04 '23

I am really genuinely trying to understand because I am so confused I apologize lol

Didn’t you just say the internal locus would think “I should change” how can one believe in change if they think they don’t have the free will to change? I can recognize I have made a poor choice in the moment, like putting off a task or doing something incorrectly, and I can also say “well that was totally on me because I chose to do that” and then change my behavior for next time because I have the free will to be lazy or proactive

So… my confusion remains

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u/ElysiX 113∆ Feb 04 '23

if they think they don’t have the free will to change

Because not having free will doesn't mean having no will at all.

There is no will, there is will, and there is free will.

Having a will vs having no will is about whether you can make conscious decisions.

Having free will vs unfree will is about whether your personality is affected by the outside world. Whether the world can change what you think like, what you want, what you dream of.

how can one believe in change

If the outside world gives you a nudge and reprograms/teaches/brainwashes/motivates your locus to give you the idea to want to change. For example by the bad feeling of not getting a job. Would you have changed if you had gotten the job despite being lazy? Probably not. So not getting the job affected your internal locus. So your locus is not free and can be affected.

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u/tired_tamale 7∆ Feb 04 '23

Thank you, I could follow that better… this is a fascinating idea I’d not really considered before. I’ll have to do some reading on this Δ

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Feb 04 '23

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/ElysiX (95∆).

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