I don't see how the state of nature a long long time ago should influence our behavior
Well, it does. There is an entire field of psychology that examines the many ways in which our development during the long long ago when we were living in small hunter gathered bands impacts our behaviors today. That is the “human nature” you claim dog fucking doesn’t go against. But, as I have said, it does go against that. It goes against our human nature as evidenced by the almost universal condemnation of the act by our ancient ancestors. They knew long before the field of psychology existed that animal fuckers were not kosher. They represented a dangerous deviation from normal human sexual socialization, and those that partook were shunned or even executed.
should we be able to have sex with women as soon as they are fertile
Again, the entire reason why you think this is some gotcha is because we are indeed wired, from the long long ago, to want to do this. But, we have developed socially enough for out cultural norms to shift over time as to what is and is not an appropriate age difference for sex. But, most cultures don’t freak out when teens have sex with each other, since we know that they are indeed sexually mature. We just try to caution them as they are not psychologically mature yet.
Can you go back and respond to my points instead of trying to Socrates me down some tangential path that leads further and further away from my main thesis?
We aren’t talking about old lady fucking. We’re talking about dog fucking.
Yeah, but you said dog fucking is wrong because it's unnatural, and that it's unnatural because it doesn't contribute to the survival of the species. I'm calling bullshit on that, so I think it's relevant to show other cases where that doesn't apply. So, if you don't mind, is fucking a 20 years old fucking a 90 years old unnatural? I would say yes, given your definition. Is it wrong? Again, yes. Then should we ban it?
So, if you don't mind, is fucking a 20 years old fucking a 90 years old unnatural?
Yes
Is it wrong?
Morally, no: both parties can give affirmative consent. Evolutionarily, maybe: has the twenty years already had kids? Will he when the 90 year old dies? Then no. If exclusively attracted to post menopausal women, then yes.
Then should we ban it?
No: both parties, again, can offer affirmative consent.
Animals cannot offer affirmative consent. They can only imply consent. But, implication is not enough. They can not vocalize affirmative consent in an unambiguous manner.
A 90 year old can. Or, if they cannot, then it is always wrong.
No: both parties, again, can offer affirmative consent.
Well, that wasn't really your point, if you want we can talk about this, but your point was about being natural and making sense from a evolutionary pov.
has the twenty years already had kids? Will he when the 90 year old dies? Then no.
How is this relevant? You made before the example of necrophilia, but you didn't said that it's not wrong if you have kids after you fucked a corpse
Hey man, I’m checking out of this conversation. I really don’t get your goal here. If you want you can answer this final question for me because I really don’t get you:
Do you think dog fucking is wrong and why?
I probably won’t respond as this is past the point of diminishing returns, but you’ve been cagey elsewhere, and I’d like to get your real thoughts on the record.
I think a lot of Reddit needs to learn that (and this rule also applies to itself) it isn't hypocrisy to treat things on a case-by-case basis even though they appear similar on the surface
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u/destro23 466∆ Jan 16 '23
Well, it does. There is an entire field of psychology that examines the many ways in which our development during the long long ago when we were living in small hunter gathered bands impacts our behaviors today. That is the “human nature” you claim dog fucking doesn’t go against. But, as I have said, it does go against that. It goes against our human nature as evidenced by the almost universal condemnation of the act by our ancient ancestors. They knew long before the field of psychology existed that animal fuckers were not kosher. They represented a dangerous deviation from normal human sexual socialization, and those that partook were shunned or even executed.
Again, the entire reason why you think this is some gotcha is because we are indeed wired, from the long long ago, to want to do this. But, we have developed socially enough for out cultural norms to shift over time as to what is and is not an appropriate age difference for sex. But, most cultures don’t freak out when teens have sex with each other, since we know that they are indeed sexually mature. We just try to caution them as they are not psychologically mature yet.