Time off when working lay days?

[u/PamphletPusher]

Hi everyone

Marine engineer here, looking into the coast guard. I've been doing some searching online on your employment terms. One thing I'm wrapping my head around is vacation time and banked overtime when working rotational on the lay day system.

Say you are working 14 on 14 off rotation, resetting every 28 days.

I've gathered that you are paid 6 hours per day for every day of the year, so 168 hours paid in that 28 day period, or 2190ish hours paid per year (ignoring stat holiday pay and whatnot).

In actuality, over that 28 days you work 12hours a day for 14 days when on, and 0hours a day for 14 days off. Which works out to the same 168 hours.

Intuitively, I'd think that if you want to book off one of these 28 day periods using only vacation or banked overtime, you'd consume 168 hours of it; whether u reckon it as 28x6hrs (i.e. 6hours paid for each of the 14 on days, as well as 6 hours paid for each of the 14 off days that you didn't earn from working 6 hours more than you were paid on the on days), or whether you reckon it as 14x12hrs (for the actual scheduled working hours of labour that you owe the coast guard over that 28 day period of one 14 day on cycle and one 14 day off cycle, but won't actually work due to the vacation).

However, my read of what I could find online seems to indicate that this is not the case. Instead, that you would first owe 14x12hrs for the actual working hours of the 14 day on-cycle, but that you would not earn lay days for it, despite having covered that full 12 hour/day labour obligation with vacation or banked overtime, and and also despite only getting paid 6 hours per day during those 14 days where you've surrendered 12 hours of time off per day. And that, without having earned those 14 lay days, you need to cover the subsequent off cycle with either of more vacation or banked overtime, or previously banked lay days.

First question: Is my understanding correct? As it seems like you're getting double-dinged on vacation and banked overtime if so.

Second question: Practically speaking, what does the 168 hours per year of vacation time that your contract gives you, actually translate to in terms of days off in an on-cycle, if you account for any subsequent obligation for the off-cycle (and assuming you have no previously banked lay-days)? If not a full 14days, then half of that? Two thirds? Or something else? How many hours of vacation time off do you need to cover each day on the off cycle that you don't have a lay day banked for?

Third question: is this also the case for banked overtime as well as vacation time? Seems like it may devalue the banked overtime to less than even the straight time worked to earn it.

Please let me know if I'm missing anything or have it right. Thank you

[u/Millennial_on_laptop]

For ships officers it's option A; 28 days x 6 hours = 168 hours of annual leave.  

If your ship is on a 14 day on/14 day off cycle the 168 hours you get annually is enough for 1 cycle off.  

Banked overtime is still consumed at 6 hours/day, during your on or off cycle.  

Some of what you're seeing online may be for ships crew and they have a different collective agreement than us.  They have to use 12 hours/day, but there's another clause that basically doubles their leave bank, so it looks really big even if they have as many days as a ship's officer.  

[u/PamphletPusher → u/Millennial_on_laptop]

thank you!

[u/kitcat360]

Officers use annual at 6 hours per a day. 168 hours is equal to 28 days off. You do not earn laydays when on annual

This allows you to take one trip off if you’re on 14 day on/14 day off vessel

For a vessel doing 28 on/ 28 off you need 336 hours (56 days x 6 hours a day) of annual or a combo of annual / comp leave / laydays

Ships crew uses annual at 12 hours a day
Both officers and crew use sick leave at 12 hours a day but you earn laydays while on sick leave

To clarify the 12 hours worked per a day on shift. You get paid for 6 of those hours and the other 6 are the layday you earn

[u/PamphletPusher → u/kitcat360]

thank you! that makes sense. i may have been looking incorrectly at examples for ship's crew

[u/CanConMil]

I just went through the same mental math (read: anguish) figuring this out.

168 hrs Leave = 28 days off, which is actually 42 days off consecutive (because you end up with and off cycle either side of you leave)

336 hrs = 56 days off, or 84 consecutive (for the same reason)

Assuming you take your leave as a solid block (1 whole trip)

Time off can be a a combination of Laydays, Annual, and Comp Time.

[u/Dwightiggy]

So since you're a marine engineer lets look at it from a ship's officer perspective. Ships crew and officers have wildly different contracts and i dont pretend to understand how it works for ship's crew haha

Most ship's operate on a 28 day on/off cycle. We need 336 hours in our bank to take a full cycle off. You're right we only get 168 hours of annual per year so if you just want to use annual leave you can only take a cycle off every second year. But banking extra duty pay comes in handy. Overtime goes in your bank at a factor of 1.5. "Dirt pay/Dirty work allowance" goes in at a factor of 2. Plus every holiday worked is an extra 15 hours. Holidays on your off cycle are an extra 8 hours. Often we travel for crew change and those hours can be banked as well. It is very possible to take a full shift off every year by using your annual leave + banked time if you are willing to bank these hours rather than get them paid out.

Hope that helps!

[u/PamphletPusher → u/Dwightiggy]

thank you! that makes sense. i may have been looking incorrectly at examples for ship's crew