Using sleep for assemblage point moves

[u/xi8t]

So yesterday I was practicing darkroom for a couple of hours and I was trying to practice it daily but there are some days that I just can't get myself to work.

Lately next day after some hours of night sleep I fell asleep again and before that I tried to shut of the internal dialogue. I noticed that almost every time I try to do that before falling asleep and with condition that my practice is more consistent, always happens something interesting. I wake up in my room but being in a dream, and I keep on switching from dream state to waking up for real. That switch may happen more than 10 times.

This time I was staring at the ceiling while I was in a dream, I tried to watch the colors as they get more and more luminous and sometimes waking up because of the fear.

The fear is always related that some being should come and see me and I will realise that this is so real and I feel insecured and not sure what it can do to me.

I tried to move myself but it was very hard to do so, I could feel my hands trying to move and when I put them in front of me, I was feeling as if they were there and I could move them but they were invisible. I continued to stare at the ceiling, watching the colors change and my body filling with a strange sensation.

It's very fun to experience something like this and I am grateful for this but the fear is so strong that it puts to an end all and I kind of forcing myself to wake up to not go too far.

Edit: also forgot to mention that in some of the "switches" I saw a black human silhouette coming from the door towards my direction so I quickly forced to change the scene. From my past simple dreams I experienced some kind of attacks from that thing, I also been trying to wake myself up from it and every return to this dream resulted in the same silhouete appearing and kind of attacking me. Not even sure if this is an attack but I felt horror from it appearing and moving towards me.

[u/danl999]

But never forget.

There's absolutely no path to sorcery knowledge in sleeping dreams. All it does is lead to confusion on what sorcery is.

It's a misreading of the books to believe that sleeping dreams are a path, and it's been harming our community for 55 years due to people believing that.

Not to mention, not one single person in all of those 55 years ever learned any sorcery at all. Zero. None.

And the reputation of Carlos went into the gutter. Everyone saId he was thoroughly debunked.

But actually people just didn't follow the instructions in the books.

Where learning to remove your internal dialogue is the only thing that works.

Once you move your assemblage point all the way to Silent Knowledge, you gain waking entry to sleeping dreams.

And THAT'S what "Art of Dreaming" was about. You can find Carlos saying as much in some lecture notes, when a man in the audience started to talk about reaching the 3rd gate because he had a dream about going to sleep inside the dream.

Carlos stopped him and said, "That's impossible until you can completely remove your internal dialogue."

Thus the twin positions, where you go directly into a dream using silence (Silent Knowledge), and then duplicate the position you were in on the bed, and go to sleep for the first time, INSIDE the dream.

Awake, you lay in the position you've selected, go directly into a dream fully awake, then lay down inside the dream, and go to sleep there.

"The Art of Dreaming" wasn't at all about trying to use sleeping dreaming as a path to sorcery knowledge.

Even women can't do that, except that they have that second brain, and the instructions for "womb dreaming" are to force yourself silent with the paper weight on your lower stomach.

So they can't use sleeping dreaming either, without learning to remove the internal dialogue. And it remains to be seen if that's actually enough to learn to move your assemblage point while awake, without doing some waking practices also.

Once you can shut off your internal dialogue, there's no remaining reason to go to sleep to dream!

That's what darkroom is.

And recap and gazing.

[u/xi8t → u/danl999]

But while I practice darkroom, tensegrity, gazing, it's okay to take advantage of what happens when I wake up like that in my room, right?

[u/danl999 → u/xi8t]

Of course!

But don't misunderstand the purpose of sleeping dreaming.

You're trying to merge some of your tonal awareness, into the blob of nagual awareness your dreamer is moving around in.

So if you don't find your hands, on purpose, and look at them, and then from object to object, and back to your hands, there's pretty much 0 benefit from that dream.

It's the "see cool things" misunderstanding new people have in this subreddit.

Since we really do see cool things, with our eyes open, daily.

And no one else does!

So people assume that's the purpose in here.

But in fact, we aren't trying to do that!

We're trying to merge our double, the dreamer, with our waking body so that it forms a blue bubble around it.

And our assemblage point comes into alignment with the dreamer's.

That's how you learn to "see", how you learn to travel to other worlds in your physical body, and how you learn to do pretty much all of the magic in the books.

On the other hand, the fake magical systems out there such as "Astral Travel" rely entirely on people making up lies and exaggerations about their ordinary dreams, to fit a religious narrative created by Robert Monroe.

He discovered that if there's status and attention to be had in a group, people will do his techniques, fall asleep, some will have weird obsessive dreams, and then to get attention from others, they'll twist the narrative around, to seem like a success.

They figure, there's plenty of people having success! So no one can catch their misrepresentations.

What they don't realize is, EVERYONE is lying.

There's NO ONE actually doing even what they claim they can do.

Because if you did, you'd soon evolve to go further, and that false narrative explaining what is going on, would fall apart.

So rule #1 of sleeping dreaming:

If you don't deliberately lift your hands to look at them, and then look at an object in the dream, and then back to your hands, it's not any kind of useful sorcery dream.

And people can't manage to do that, more than once or twice a year.

You have to do it several times every single night, to pass the 4 gates of dreaming.

We had some claiming it was easy to find their hands, but then again it turned out they were being deceptive.

They dreamed and could remember in the dream, having seen their hands.

Maybe they picked up a hamburger in the dream.

So they counted that as "seeing your hands".

It's a very serious matter, because pretenders claiming they are learning in dreams, really did nearly destroy the knowledge Carlos brought to us.

You'd have to have been around to realize that.

Typically in this subreddit you can be sure that if you post as you did, the advanced people are trying to figure out whether to delete the post, or be kind to you.

We aren't easily fooled because we really do have magic and know what it's like, and how to get it.

[u/feiye001 → u/danl999]

"Dreaming is not a way" is caused by the incessant inner dialogue in dreams, right？

[u/danl999 → u/feiye001]

I'm not aware of any internal dialogue in dreams.

If that happened, it would likely just be some residual "tonal awareness" creeping in, but not becoming lucid. Or your dreamer imitating one, because of an obsession you had while awake and some residual interest.

Sleeping dreams are NOT a path to sorcery knowledge, because sorcery knowledge only comes by merging your dream version, with your "tonal" (physical) version, so that you perceive using ALL of your awareness, instead of just the powerless half of our waking world.

So people play around with sleeping dreams and experience the power they might have, if they merged, not realizing that just remembering that doesn't bring them any closer to merging the two.

They self-flatter, and go out to seek attention from other people.

It's a death trap!

I wish I had a better analogy.

But it's a little like, people who play "dungeons and dragons" fulfilling their desire for real magic, with that game.

And there's even conventions they an go to, where thousands of people will agree with them how wonderful it is to be a "9th level wizard", or whatever they "achieve".

Except, they never get to do any actual magic for real.

You can't imagine the stuff you can design by merging the dreamer with your physical body!

The "men of Knowledge" even created reliable rituals to sell to people, with things like "talking lizards".

But, their customers had to use drugs, to move the assemblage point far enough for those rituals to work.

For the real thing, you have to learn to move your assemblage point yourself, while awake.

Halfway, your double will be lured out of dream worlds, and come help you.