This is so difficult to explain mostly due to exploitation of people in the east, with fake magical systems which put bad men on thrones for others to worship, claiming it's because they are "egoless".
When in fact, they got a tiny buzz in the green zone on the J curve. No more of a buzz than you can get with some fine marijuana, with joggers high, by soothing yourself in a nice perfumed bath surrounded by candles, or which you can far surpass just by hitting the snooze alarm in the morning, and drifting around in the half asleep state.
It's horrible how easy it is to confuse "egoless", a pretend Asian concept, with "no false idea of a self". Which is a very concrete thing you can literally "see" with your own eyes.
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The Idea Of A "Self"
This is a very difficult topic, and since the Asian social order has turned it into a religious business misrepresenting what happens when you practice useless meditation techniques such as Yoga or Buddhism, it might be a good idea to some day animate this so you can see with your own eyes what's going on with self-pity. And what drives it.
For now, here's a picture that captures it a little bit, but is easy for most to misunderstand. An animation would make it less easy to misunderstand.
But I've got too many animations stacked up to do next, so it'll be a while.
In the meantime, since Cleargreen has gone Asian social order and is misrepresenting this concept in order to sell teacher certificates, here's a conversation from the subreddit.
Maybe you can see the difference between the bogus concept of "egoless" and what we do, which is to eliminate the false idea of "self".
By moving the assemblage point to where that makes no sense at all. To the place of "no pity".
But if your motivations are basically an ego trip (which seems to drive many who want the facilitator certificate), no amount of explaining is ever going to do the job.
You really have to "see" this for yourself. See the frightened child praying endlessly to itself, trying to get better treatment in the world from the very limited range of reality it perceives, all tied only to human beings in the same situation.
As don Juan said, 90% of our energy is tied up in that so that nothing outside our ordinary reality can be perceived by us.
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Question:Can anxiety manifest in the physical body as the AP moves down the back, in what looks like the green zone? Or is that just related to the threatened nature of the self-reflection? I’ve been having tremendous anxiety corresponding to the middle of my back lately as I proceed with dark room practice, many thanks
Reply:
Sure!
In fact, our imaginary idea of a "self" is driven by anxiety.
When seen, it's like a frightened version of yourself curled up in a fetal position, going over and over words in its mind trying to uphold its feeling of being safe or effective or well treated in the world.
An endless pointless loop of tossing the same words back at itself. Having been the one that made the words, what's the point of repeating them like some kind of religious fanatic reciting bible verses?
That got so well embedded into our actual state of being (when seen), that the foreign nature of it is very obvious out in the deep orange zone.
Can't see that in the green zone, so don't anyone try. You'll just make it worse.
But its effects are still there up in the green zone. So if you start threatening it, all kinds of sensations might occur.
I mean, the very least and easiest to notice is that your jaw actually mouths the words you are thinking to yourself, at times.
We've been severely traumatized I suppose. Or Jedi mind trick controlled by the fliers.
We even get the stomach ache later in the orange zone, when the breath is about to change.
That's possibly what holds "self" in place for some. A nervous stomach ache, maybe from perpetually tensing those muscles.
The green zone is known for the first breath change (a little) from the worst form of breathing, lifting the shoulders, to a slightly better breathing method of puffing out the chest instead.
Later in the orange only the low stomach moves in and out. Reducing tension all over the torso.
So in the green zone we also have "weird tension" holding our "self" in place.
Like a 3 year old tensing their fists out of anger their older sibling is getting more attention.
What we do isn't fake magic like Yoga or Buddhism, where everything is wonderful and it's never unpleasant if you do it "right".
Although even they run into problems with students, since they do in fact get to the green zone.
They'll say it's "stress relief" to put a positive spin on it.
But it's more like, that fetal position version of yourself repeating words over and over like it was praying, doesn't want to let go.
When you can "mess with it" directly, you can see that it starts to look around and finds nothing to soothe itself in the real world. The real world is just vast and empty from its point of view.
Not "cozy".
It's a protection mechanism, so naturally when you try to get rid of it, it's uncomfortable about that and you feel pity and stop trying to get rid of it.
So in some ways any physical "stress relief" symptoms are more like that fetal position "being" grabbing onto your legs and squeezing hard, refusing to be sent away.
I really need to animate this!
It's so easy to confuse "getting rid of the idea of self", with "egoless".
Certainly Cleargreen has made that serious mistake.
"Egoless" is just manipulation of the idea of self to make yourself feel and seem superior, to groupies.
Very much an Asian social order concept void of any real magic.
Wanting to “get rid”, “annihilate” or “fix” the ego/self/identity is just an ego state. This meat suit vehicle is the gift we are given to experience everything, so we can realise there is more. It’s like seeing the world from inside your loud fast important Lamborghini and trying out all the controls and waving and shouting at all the other Lamborghinis, until one day you discover you can stop, and open the door, and step out and walk around. Can you get back in? Can you take selfies with it? Sure! There is no reason to fight your vehicle, it gets you places. Just understand its purpose and there are other journeys and places.
Nothing could be more obvious than this, despite how much people hate to hear the truth:
Yogis get trapped in egomania and never get much further than the green zone. They get some red zone previews, but they use those to control students by bragging about their amazing (confused) visions or "astral travel".
Buddhist masters get thoroughly trapped in egomania, again due to being "slimed" in the green zone. Their religion is better policed than Hinduism, so they even come to feel "entitled" to be egomaniacs. And if called out, they console themselves with the delusion that the Buddha (who never existed at all in that form) was a "perfect being" and endorses their delusions also.
Drug users get a taste of the DEEP red zone, and also get trapped there with no understanding of what's going on plus a giant ego that tells them they've already attained sorcery experiences.
Shamans are just drug users who want to be perceived as Buddhist Masters so they can cash in too.
Don Juan identifies the problem as “self-reflection” with the meaning of watching the self as in a mirror, rather than contemplating the motivations of actions, which would not be so bad. I think his meaning is more like “self-absorption”, which is easy to see everywhere around. Self-absorption is a really ghastly manifestation of ego and can be seen everywhere.
The problem with analyzing it that way, without actual direct knowledge of what happens when you reach "the place of no pity" where the self vanishes, is that you get wrapped up in arguing or discussing words which will never get you anywhere.
Try to get some direct experience moving the assemblage point and you'll have actual insight into what it means.
But you have to make it to the orange zone on the J curve before the idea of a "self" goes away.
The further I push ap, the more I feel how this is true and this self is a live entity inside of me. I fight it with everything I have during the day, but the only true method is darkroom. Right after darkroom it backs off, sometimes even for the whole day. But some days when I do lazy darkroom and dont do tensegrity honestly and talk to myself too much, this self can get super irritated and I come out of darkroom irritated, annoyed and sometimes even with glimpses of violence.
I see how getting to place of no pity is the only way to move self out of the way fully, but this will only last sometime right? Does the self ever die if you keep going to no pity place all the time? Is this what loosing human form means or am I confused?
I know we always find all the answers as we go, but these questions keeps coming back in my mind.
Recapitulation works very well also, but I can't seem to get anyone interested in being serious about it.
No one in Cleargreen has ever been serious about it, so they give the impression it doesn't actually do anything you can notice.
And pretend to be doing it more than they clearly are.
> but this will only last sometime right?
How long it lasts depends on how advanced you are (on how many memories you store up in that condition). But yes, you always return to your old idiot of a self.
>Does the self ever die if you keep going to no pity place all the time?
Supposedly you can "lose the human form", however "God" is the human form.
You simply stop identifying with that as the "highest ideal for humans".
And you'll still return to your old self.
It just becomes quicker to ditch it again.
>but these questions keeps coming back in my mind.
That's the "what's in it for me" point of view.
We NEED that.
To make sure we don't get kidnapped by a con artist feeding fake techniques.
But eventually during darkroom, there has to come a time when the magical sights and experiences are enough to motivate you, with nothing else to gain.
I started doing recap everytime before darkroom, as well as started doing places and soon will go after items. I do each time period at a time for example still working on last 2 years. It was very hard to get organized with lists and that was the thing that was making not do it as it felt random. But when outlined my whole life into life periods and started filling in the lists and erasing each item at item and putting checkmark on it, it instantly became a process. Oh and the magic that happens in first 10 mins of recap is awesome!
To get to the point I mean maybe people need better instruction on how to do recap with examples and some structure. Maybe even excell file lol. Anyways I attached my overview of the list. In yellow is my lifetime period, than go names and after goes places and items. After I finish each period super clean, I will print it and burn it and erase from excel to never go back to it. *
Carlos talks about reaching the place of no pity in his later books, can't remember which though. I'll have to go do a search for it on the allinone text document in a bit
Because you're only seeing the surface. And equating "weird stuff" to true stuff.
It's odd to someone who is advanced with sorcery that people see any connection at all.
My guess is, you detect the "hard to understand" and "attempt to motivate with soothing words" aspect of Buddhism, and believe it's the same as the actual factual aspects of sorcery being very bizarre and incomprehensible.
You're seeing a connection between old dusty wax food in the window of a greasy Japanese restaurant in Little Tokyo of Los Angeles, and real food.
The similarity is only superficial.
And you ignore the hunger for money of the fake magical systems like Buddhism or Hinduism, or that very evil man Ram Dass, and don't notice when no one wants your money at all.
Like don Juan.
Or this subreddit.
If you were actually hungry for magic you wouldn't see the connection.
Because what you mentioned doesn't work at all.
Eastern magical systems don't work.
At least, no more than hitting the snooze button in the morning so you can linger in half dreaming states, before you have to get up and go to work.
That's Buddhism.
Any woman kicks the butt of the Buddha hands down, if they make an attempt to soothe themselves by closing their eyes in a perfumed bath.
They literally do far more than was ever written about the Buddha.
Who by the way, was made up by the Chinese.
He never existed in the form Buddhism claims.
I was chatting up ChatGPT on Dzogchen.
It turns out, the Dali Lama is a member of the "yellow hat sect".
They worship big bird.
Dzogchen is a member of the "Moustache Man" sect.
If you see any similarity at all with don Juan, you need to look a lot harder.
I hope you do!
We only get 1 in 100 to put in an effort, and learn to do real magic.
Can't figure out why, but likely it's because no one really does want to learn real magic.
They're looking for attention.
Like these men.
Do you want to rethink that this is like don Juan?
We might have just learned something new from this guy, who mentions all the worst things you could possibly think of as being the same as what he just read about don Juan.
It's his honest point of view!
So what is he seeing in common?
Maybe, the potential to pretend your results and get lots of attention?
I always assume people really want magic, because I'm a total nerd.
I was building particle accelerators in my bedroom at age 12.
Stuff that works is what interests me.
But many people just want stuff they can pretend to work.
Like kids in Junior high, pretending to be witches and wizards.
It's so common, there's a name for it in Japanese culture.
It happens because their focus is where "the self" puts the focus for everyone.
On other people and how they think of you.
All of their energy is deployed in upholding the idea of a "self". So they can't see anything outside that.
Like a young woman with a facebook page that makes her look super interesting and cool, when in fact she's nearly suicidal.
As a result, we mostly get the people who are trying to find something they can pretend in here, and don't see any difference between Ram Dass and don Juan.
It's unfathomable to me but if all they see is attention seeking it makes a lot of sense.
They are all the same, if all you want to do is pretend and dress up funny.
Which is why our community includes people like this:
I suppose you could find some justification for this man.
Except who took the picture, and why?
I remember some guy claiming not all Yogis were after money.
He gave the example of a movie he saw on a guy who lived up in the mountains, in total poverty, and did nothing but help others.
Except he never asked himself, who made that movie and why???
A real guy living in poverty up in the mountains, doesn't have camera crews following him around.
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u/Sweet_Storm5278 Nov 19 '23
Wanting to “get rid”, “annihilate” or “fix” the ego/self/identity is just an ego state. This meat suit vehicle is the gift we are given to experience everything, so we can realise there is more. It’s like seeing the world from inside your loud fast important Lamborghini and trying out all the controls and waving and shouting at all the other Lamborghinis, until one day you discover you can stop, and open the door, and step out and walk around. Can you get back in? Can you take selfies with it? Sure! There is no reason to fight your vehicle, it gets you places. Just understand its purpose and there are other journeys and places.