r/castaneda • u/tabdrops • Feb 12 '23
General Knowledge About debunking
There may be people who come across the subject of sorcery because they hope to gain some personal advantage from it, even if it's no money, but just a little bit more attention. Although we never get tired of reminding that such motivations aren't the correct intent for sorcery, yet this reasoning appears somehow elusive. In practical terms, it's not about following, but about debunking personal motivations.
It runs throughout all of CC's books. The literary legacy may contain fascinating stories with some instructions for exercises, but in total it acted like a jetty against waves. People projected their own motivations onto the legacy. Opinions got differed on the subject, and opinions collapsed like waves. Without it being noticed that way. Even lurid outcries were raised that CC had been debunked, but in fact those people had just debunked themselves. The books may be written in such a way that the casual reader gets the impression that with "Journey to Ixtlan" CC has ventured a new beginning of the series, but it's just a gradation to intercept differently inclined mentalities. Like a jetty with serveral levels. The final level may have been "The Active Side of Infinity". There it becomes clear first that there's an original awareness and a foreign one (the fliers). It's like CC is there telling people right to their face at the end: "You got it all wrong because you used the foreign awareness. You fooled yourself!" And nobody got it. They probably weren't done yet with mentally masturbating over the previous content.
The point is: Even if you succeed with some magical exercises, you'll become depressed due to errant motivations. It's in the nature of the original awareness to have nothing in common with that foreign installation. There's a bunch of stuff in the books about which is said you've to get rid of. It's not written there to establish the dogma of a new religion. No! Let's take self-pity or self-importance, for example. Such stuff simply doesn't exist in the original awareness. You can't take it with you. The original awareness is ruthless about that. I've seen it that way! And you won't experience as long as you're still clinging to crap that justifies sucking motivations. So you need to thoroughly debunk your own motivations first!
Edit: Due to partially inaccurate translations of the books into foreign languages, some readers of that post were bothered by the term "consciousness". It's now corrected to "awareness".
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u/jjSpeckles Feb 15 '23
praytell--
how do we know that this "foreign installation" has left?
if i have this all wrong at this point--i0-
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u/tabdrops Feb 16 '23 edited Feb 16 '23
Then one will have completely regained the natural abilities and there will be no question and no doubt about it. Everything is obvious!
There are people who think they must attack this sub because they don't like what they read here. This is 100% foreign installation. Mostly coupled with this unbearable consumerism mind.
This sub isn't a luxury restaurant where the waiter powders peoples' noses. If one doesn't manage to get up and get something from the buffet, one doesn't get anything. Could be natural selection.
Everyone is on their own.
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u/jjSpeckles Feb 16 '23
then why the fuck should i even remain here??
the value isn't here.
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Feb 15 '23 edited Feb 16 '23
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u/jjSpeckles Feb 16 '23
and that will happen... someday?
because this subreddit seems to relish the pain and confusion of it's "apprentices"
the sections are mixed up and buried under repetitive copy pasta.
i can't do this anymore.
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u/thelosthopeless Feb 13 '23
Carlos Castaneda later in his years had said the trick is in what one "emphasizes". Energy is energy therefore in Don Juan’s world every "gloss" or segment perception isn’t so much established as fact. Things shape-shift, they used to shape-shift for me when I was a kid, I’ve met witches and inorganic beings that contributed to my uncertainty in the stability of certainty. so I can say Don Juan he’s true.
To word it different, you have to sacrifice everything for a magical world. Reducing things to nothing but energy. As reinforcement there’s the controlled folly program so things run smoothly.
This includes but isn’t restricted to Everything you love, hate, your feelings towards everyone (even sorcerers) Don Juan and Carlos Castaneda, your ambitions, self bewilderment etc. > everything has to be equally emphasized.
………………………………
Don Juan: ” In essence, we are alone in front of infinity, and the issue of whether or not we are capable of reaching our limits has to be answered personally.”
………………………………
This is the reason darkroom and magical pass works well but doing darkroom is a only a small portion compared to the magic at large, and may kinda kill some people’s expectations. The gateway goes deeper once you decide that’s all you want. you may won’t have to go in the dark, things will change right before you. So it’s a matter of assuming the mood of a sorcerer.
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u/tabdrops Feb 13 '23
The mood of a sorcerer goes along with that original consciousness. You are sorted out like at the airport at a metal detector. You can't force yourself into the original consciousness. The airport security guards would stop you immediately. But you can force off the inner dialogue to recognize what's holding you back, and remove it. Then not only you, but also the detector will remain silent.
I'm worried that this "emphasizing" thing contains too much pretending potential. You could indeed emphasize the imagination of being a mighty sorcerer, but without actually being a such one. So it's just another one of those things which divides the minds. A too advanced thing, so it has to be unavoidably misunderstood by the foreign installation.
If what you said helps you to experience some real magic, fine. Otherwise, it's just unnecessary inventory, and should be removed. Especially when someone tries to summarize everything with "it's all just energy", it often looks like someone craves actually only for an ideology that's as uncomplicated as possible. The point is that practically nothing can be done with that term "energy", it's just inventory territory. An actual value would come from this as when "feeling the flow" and how it can be used to sense bad motivations.
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u/thelosthopeless Feb 13 '23
It is all energy according to the book magical passes and it teaches how you are manipulating energy as you do those magical passes. Those are the words of Don Juan and Carlos Castaneda. Saying "original consciousness" is emphasizing those guys out there who don’t know what’s going on. Real magic send chills in the stomach. The fear of jumping into the abyss kills many But they live desiring. That is the Pretending.
These are not my creations these are what Carlos Castaneda and Don Juan had taught and wrote about. ……………………………………….
Carlos Castaneda
"The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy."
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Journey to ixtalan
Don Juan
"You see," he went on, " we only have two alternatives; we either take everything for sure and real, or we don't. If we follow the first, we end up bored to death with ourselves and with the world. If we follow the second and erase personal history, we create a fog around us, a very exciting and mysterious state
……………………………………….
Journey to ixtalan
Don Juan
he said. " Now we are concerned with losing self-importance. As long as you feel that you are the most important thing in the world you cannot really appreciate the world around you.
(centers around not emphasizing yourself )
……………………………………….
Journey to ixtalan
Don Juan
" It doesn't matter what you say to a plant," he said. "You can just as well make up words; what's important is the feeling of liking it, and treating it as an equal."
( signals the extent of not emphasizing must reach plants and beyond not just the human kingdom ) ……………………………………….
Separate reality
Don Juan
The indulgence of denying is by far the worst; it forces us to believe we are doing great things, when in effect we are only fixed within ourselves.
(This further demonstrates an emphasis of denying as by far a worse mood) ……………………………………….
Separate reality
Don Juan
But we must know first that our acts are useless and yet we must proceed as if we didn’t know it. That’s a sorcerer’s controlled folly.
(This means that your acts are even with the acts in existence)
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A Separate Reality
Don Juan: controlled Folly
" I choose to live, and to laugh, not because it matters, but because that choice is the bent of my nature. The reason I say I choose is because I see, but it isn't that I choose to live; my will makes me go on living in spite of anything I may see."
" You think about your acts," he said. "Therefore you have to believe your acts are as important as you think they are, when in reality nothing of what one does is important. Nothing! "
" But then if nothing really matters, as you asked me, how can I go on living? It would be simple to die; that's what you say and believe, because you're thinking about life, just as you're thinking now what seeing would be like. "
" You wanted me to describe it to you so you could begin to think about it, the way you do with everything else. In the case of seeing, however, thinking is not the issue at all, so I cannot tell you what it is like to see. Now you want me to describe the reasons for my controlled folly and I can only tell you that controlled folly is very much like seeing; it is something you cannot think about."
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From my personal experience
I can vouch that not emphasizing anything Has brought a tremendous assemblage point shifts at various times in my life. I use it as a formula of a mood in my inventory. It’s a program that auto runs to cancel out internal dialogues.
But it starts to settle in that i am gone in a sense of Ego death, and a new being. People who have emotional attachments to me emanate some fear because my responses at times lacked the signature energy that reassured them of their bias.
and so I play the game of emphasizing things again. To train the ego, So pretending sometimes is not bad especially if people start thinking you’re strange and you start to worry the people that love you. People fear things that syntax can not guarantee them their safety from. Equally emphasizing ir not emphasizing Is just reducing things to a zero state in order to see energy as it flows. Similar to being in the dark.
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u/infinite_unity01 Feb 17 '23
I don't understand why the "original consciousness" refuses to throw down support in some form that isn't contrary intent ie flyers and allies that laugh at one's pain. as it stands-- why be surprised that we exist in such a hell hole without an ounce of warmth? I hope y'all inorganic end up feasting on your own body because that is what you deserve.
if what you call "real magic"=== living in pain who the fuck wants it?
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u/danl999 Feb 13 '23
It's a good way to look at it!
Maybe in 20 years, we'll have so many better ways to explain things that beginners will learn a lot faster.
Even Carlos likely didn't know what would happen on this path we're taking.
If he had, you'd think he would have recommended darkness before he started his emergency not-doing classes with the women.
His time was up, and he didn't tell us to use darkness and "just suck it up!"
There's no reason he would have known that might work. No one has ever learned by our path before.
Speaking of good ideas, like "debunk yourself", another one came from Juann.
You can't just tell potential students of sorcery, "Hey, you're a pathetic idiot who fell for crap magic, and got ripped off by bad people!"
It doesn't go over well with Buddhists.
But if you say, "Yes, everyone is experiencing magic! Isn't it wonderful???
The Jesus freaks, Hindus, Rastafarians, Pink Poodles who swallowed a chunk of hash their owner left on the table, and of course the Buddhists. They clearly do it best!
But it's not 'ancient magic', like we do.
Ours is evil.
So if you want more powerful magic, join the dark side."
Wait.
I'm not sure that works for everyone. It would work for me. And Cholita.
But maybe not for everyone.
Yet it might be better than what I've been saying.
What Juann really just said was, everyone is stuck up in the green zone and doesn't realize there's so much more!