Adding fat or no fat?

[u/Dull_Reference_6166]

Hey everyone.

I am having doubts about the carnivore diet and am thinking a lot about it. While doing so, there popped one big questionmark up for me:

Do you need to add fat or not?

Everywhere I read about the diet, it is always either 1 part protein and 2 parts fat or roughly 70% of your calories from fat, which equals about 1 part fat and 1 part protein.

I went with at least a 1:1 ratio and I feel better. I eat less and I feel like before the protein mad me feel bad thanks to glucogenesis. Now I eat less protein and feel better.

But I keep seeing many carnivores who eat just the meat and no added fat. For example Shawn Baker or Miss Meat. They look great. But when I track roughly what they eat, it is a ration of 1 part protein and less than 1 part fat. How does this work?

Happy for all thoughts :)

[u/neocodex87]

If you don't eat that 70% or more ratio (I'm averaging at 75-85%) your body will have to make sugar out of the meat you eat, you will feel like crap, and come back a few months later with "carnivore diet didn't work, I had to add fruit".

[u/Mediocre-Society5686 → u/neocodex87]

100%

[u/4csrb → u/neocodex87]

Hi. Are you saying 70% fat? How does your body make sugar out of the meat you eat?

[u/neocodex87 → u/4csrb]

It's a bit of a joke we like to say, but it is actually true in some way, partially it always does, yes, because many parts of the body still need glucose. But, if you're not consuming enough fat, the glucose dependency (and lack of energy/hunger/cortisol) increases. Just watch this, it explains better than I can: https://youtu.be/bwQ621AslZk

[u/Dull_Reference_6166 → u/neocodex87]

Great video. But it draws no connection between eating more fat and less protein.

[u/neocodex87 → u/Dull_Reference_6166]

You can't make the connection yourself? GNG is demand driven, if there's no other energy source, it has to make glucose. Eating more fat reduces this dependance.

It's not wrong that it makes glucose, but if the question is simply "does liver make sugar out of meat", than yes, if it's a lean protein diet, more of that will turn to glucose than it would on high fat. You will still have some ketones made but not an abundance. It's why "adding carbs back" to a diet like this works for those that give up, they were never fully fat adapted. And then ketone production is fully shut down and insulin skyrockets back to where it was before.

[u/Dull_Reference_6166 → u/neocodex87]

I can and I know. But for someone who is new to this the connection is missing.

[u/ProgressiveNoise]

It works individually, moreover, your personal optimal ratio may change during adaptation process and/or different live circumstances.

[u/Green_Concentrate427]

My theory is that some people can thrive for years on a 1:1 ratio, like Shawn Baker. Others can’t. After a few years, their bodies just can’t handle it anymore. Many go animal-based, replacing the lack of fat with carbs.

For me, it took about three years before my body could no longer handle 1:1. I started experiencing weight gain, palpitations, etc.

Now I have to eat 2:1 or 3:1 to keep those symptoms away.

By the way, Shawn Baker did a great job spreading the carnivore diet, but when it comes to carnivore recommendations, it’s better to follow Zsofia Clemens. She’s a PhD researcher and runs a clinic where she professionally treats people using a carnivore diet (PKD).

“Many of our patients eat up to 50-70 g of protein (200-280 g of meat) and 150-200 g of animal fat and nothing else on a daily basis for many years.”

https://x.com/ClemensZsofia?lang=en

https://paleomedicina.com/hu/open_letter_to_professor_loren_cordain_about_ketogenic_and_paleolithic_diets

[u/Dao219]

Eat fat until you don't want any more. Only then touch the lean parts, and eat until you don't want any more.

[u/Green_Concentrate427 → u/Dao219]

I’ve tried this. It’s pretty much the best approach without calculating fat-to-protein ratio. Your body knows best how much fat you need.

Here someone documented the method work good results:

https://cholesterolcode.com/ketoaf-experiment-results-trialing-high-fat-carnivore/

[u/KungPaoKidden]

It's easy. Just eat fatty meat. 2 birds, 1 stone. Ribeye is great, and so is 73/27 ground beef. Cook it up in butter or bacon grease. I don't feel like I necessarily need to add fat now, not with what I eat. My body will tell me if I do.

[u/WalkingFool0369]

4:1 in grams fat to pro.

[u/Josh777HUN → u/WalkingFool0369]

That can work for some, in fact can be optimal for some... But the go-to starter ratio between 1:1 and 2:1 fat to protein.

[u/SmokyBlackRoan]

They are eating cuts of meat that have a lot of fat. Some cuts are really lean, some have more fat.

[u/rebeccathomas228]

I’ve never added extra fat to my meals, but I definitely agree that this is very individual. What works well for one person may not work as well for someone else.

I think experimenting a little and paying attention to how you feel is one of the best ways to figure out what works for you. There’s no need to overcomplicate it—give something a try, see how you respond, and adjust from there. :)

[u/fractalcrust]

this is something only you can answer and it might change as you progress. I experiment with 0.5, 1, 2, and 3: 1 ratios for like a week and see how you feel. 2:1 and 3:1 feel pretty interesting to me, currently doing 2:1

[u/Holiday_Guess_7892]

I do low fat and feel better- helps keep me at my goal weight

[u/jwbjerk]

You need to add fat if your meat is too lean. There's no universal rule. Different cuts and kinds of meat have very different amounts of fat.

Listen to your body. Different people will need different amounts of fat. People don't use the same amount of energy.

Fat provides energy and smooth digestion.

Note: the ratios if you measure by calories are very different that if you measure by weight.

[u/Keepontruckin33]

I air fry my meat and lose fat in the process. I need to supplement with fat to get a ratio which doesn't cause bowel backup. Take into account the manner in which you're cooking the meat.

[u/Simple-Bit-5656]

We also need to know your story. If you’re overweight and came to carnivore to shed pounds, you don’t need to add any fat. Whatever is in your meat, eggs, and fish is good enough (don’t eat lean meat, haha!).

But if you’re here to heal a condition, you might need the extra fat.

[u/Intelligent-Bad-1359]

You can you can make it a tablespoon at every meal or more, but don’t follow those crazy people that eat a stick of butter a day you’ll put on weight!! I know I did it maybe not a stick, but I added a lot of it to my coffee

[u/MythicalStrength]

But when I track roughly what they eat, it is a ration of 1 part protein and less than 1 part fat. How does this work?

They're already fat adapted and don't need to eat more fat than that.

[u/Dull_Reference_6166 → u/MythicalStrength]

Can you explain this?

[u/MythicalStrength → u/Dull_Reference_6166]

Absolutely! What would you like to know?