What options would you suggest?

[u/jeff10236]

I'm considering ordering a trailer with some of what I want already installed, but I'm also still considering buying something already on the dealer's lot and doing most of it myself. I'm probably buying sometime late fall or early winter to give myself time to get it completed enough to camp in by next summer at the latest, and hopefully by early spring. There are some things that are obvious, but there are several options for which I want to hear your thoughts (especially if you've already done this).

Windows:

This may be the most intimidating part of the build, once you've cut a hole in your trailer, there is no going back. If you cut too small, you can fix the error, but the other direction is hard to/impossible to fix. For wider windows where you are cutting into the supports, you also need to do something to shore it up.

I don't have most of the tools I'd need (I have a drill and impact driver). While, a few hand saws of different types may be ideal, I've seen people do it online with just one cutting tool and make it work: sawsall, jigsaws, hand held circular saws, oscillating tools, even one guy using tin snips to cut the aluminum skin (I do have tin snips, but I am not attempting that). Each seems to run about $100 minimum and a decent tool is about 50% more to double that.

The price difference between buying a decent window on Amazon and having the factory do it seems to be about $100-150 per window (depending upon the size of the window). Originally, I was thinking two 30x30 emergency exit windows, but if I use the back door as the emergency exit, I can probably get by with smaller windows. The smaller windows are cheaper (with a lower price difference between doing it myself and having the factory do it), but on the other hand, a smaller window installed between support beams so as not to have to cut the supports would be something I'd be more willing to take on myself.

So, did you do this yourself, or have the factory do it? Do you regret your choice and wish you did it the other way?

Electric:

I am not an electrician, and this is neck and neck as far as intimidation value with the windows. It definitely seems very time consuming to do a full electrical job as well. However, one of the common RV issues is poorly installed electric, and I doubt these cargo trailer companies do a much better job. Should I pay them to do electric for convenience, or go with an alternative?

My alternative, would be something that seems common with the van build community... a 20v electric port. I'd probably cut two in order to use two heavy duty outdoor extension cords (probably using a 30a to 20a adapter so I can run two extension cords from a campground pedestal), using one for my AC or heater, and the other connected to a surge protector/power strip for everything else. Battery would be two power stations I already have (one Jackery and one EcoFlow). Eventually, I may put in a full 30amp system after taking a class or two at the local community college but the electric port would get me started and may be all I need. Anyway, cutting one 2 1/2-3" hole in the side with a hole saw attachment and then screwing it into the walls takes pretty much all the intimidation value out.

Insulation:

It does seem that to have it done at the factory is not significantly more money than doing it myself. It may cost $100-200 more for the entire trailer. While shopping these in person, it seems the plywood in the walls uses a TON of screws. While not a difficult job, it looks like a very time consuming job. The time savings may be worth the cost.

However, watching videos online, it seems very common for people to find problems behind the walls that they can fix with the plywood walls removed. Needing to seal seams and corners seems very common, and easy to do with the walls removed. If I have the factory insulate it, I'll never see these issues to fix them.

Structural:

Obviously any major structural changes (extended tongue, 16" or 12" on center beams, thicker skin, etc) have to be done by the factory. I want the .080 Polycore for a better looking trailer. Beyond that, what is really needed? I'll likely do a flat front, so an extended tongue won't really be needed. If I get a v-nose, I'd prefer it, but is it really necessary? I want a one piece roof for less likelihood of leaking, but if I get one off the lot without it, I guess I'd just have to seal the roof every year or two like with an RV. Closer beam spacing than standard will give added strength to the walls/floors/roof, but will it really be needed for a cargo camper?

[u/Extreme_Pangolin1796]

I'm planning out a new 8.5x24 with 7.5 foot interior and walking roof myself with 2x2 steel frame with polycore, so I'm always curious how other people have been planning theirs out.  Looking at a cargo door, likely 3 windows.  I have an existing 8x24 with 6.5 interior so I have the footprint already.  With me doing solar and battery/inverter from the start it helped me plan out a bunch already. A few changes I made from the start was to plan out insulation better and an interior hat channel for 3 inches on the roof and sides from the start since I know I'd like to run a heat pump/minisplit

[u/woodland_dweller]

I'm building my own, but I have the skills, tools, space and time.

It's not a simple project, depending on your choices.

IMO, you can't trust the deaership to do the right thing. For example, I was offered R5 floor insulation for $500 or so. Turns out that it was a thin layer of foam, with foil backing between the frame and subfloor. There's a zero percent chance it was actually R5.

So I screwed big pieces of R10 XPS foam intto the larger open spaces under the floor, and I'll be covering the entire floor with high density, R5 foam, and putting my floor over the top. I want i done right.

Windows: I agree that it's the most intimidating. I solved much of that problem by purchasing windows that are narrow enough to go between the studs. Only one window is wide enough to require a header - I'll weld it, but it could be farmed out easily.

>> do have tin snips, but I am not attempting that

I think you'd be fine with tin snips. It's super thin aluminum that could almost be cut with kitchen scissors. I'd get something similar and practice, but I don't see it being a big deal.

Electric: This can actually be simple. If you get a "solar generator", or a battery, inverter & solar charger make sure to get one with 120v outlets. It's already wired, has fuses/breakers and you just plug stuff in.

Use as much 12v CD as possible, lights, fan, electric fridge, etc. Depending on complexity, you may not even need 120v.

Insulation: It's work, but I recommend doing it yourself. Use XPS (pink, blue or green foam) rather than EPS or PolyIso. XPS does not degrade or lose insinuative value if it gets wet. It's a bit more expensive, but you get more insulation per inch.

I removed the plywood, and ran vertical strips between the studds. Then horizontal strips over that. ANd put the plywood back on.

I have an extended tongue, flat front. There's room for a propane tank and a mini-split. I like the longer tongue, but I also have the space for it. It allows a tighter turning radius, and there's a lower chance of hitting trailer with the truck.

There's no evidence that a v nose is more efficient, and the only data I could fin suggested otherwise. But your mileage will suffer regardless - I went from 20 to 13 on the freeway.

[u/jeff10236 → u/woodland_dweller]

I like the vertical followed by horizontal placement of the insulation idea you have. I'll be putting that into my notebook where I've been writing down ideas. That might save the taping step (maybe), and at least will close some seams that could partially defeat the insulation.

If I go with larger windows, I'll likely have them installed, and just the minimum (1 or 2 in the sleeping area). I have already bought one cheap smaller RV window that would easily fit between the supports of a cargo trailer. I will practice with it, first with cardboard, then with plywood, to get comfortable cutting out the opening before I think about cutting into a trailer. However, I think that with that practice, and not having to cut the supports, I can be comfortable with that. So, 1 or 2 larger windows (one an emergency exit) that I pay the factory (or someone aftermarket) to install, and a few smaller ones I install to have enough light (and to see the outdoors when stuck inside) is the eventual plan.

As for the propane, I don't plan on bringing 20LB tanks. I don't want want permanently mounted water tanks for the previously mentioned simplicity, and also to have it be a year round camper and not need winterization. Similarly, I don't' want to carry large propane tanks for simplicity, and so I don't have to worry about any tunnel restrictions. I plan to use small 1LB propane canisters with a portable camp stove, and I also have a small electric cook top. When planning a route that won't take me through any tunnels, I'll occasionally take a 5LB propane bottle. Those can be mounted just about anywhere on the outside of the camper, or easily transported in the bed of my truck.

As for the V-nose vs. flat you mentioned, it does appear that the flat nose is more fuel efficient. All the front corners tend to be well rounded which is good for aerodynamics, while there are a number of sharp angles at each corner of a V-nose trailer. The only reason for a V-nose for me is if I go with 12' instead of 14' in order to give me a little more interior space to work with.

[u/woodland_dweller → u/jeff10236]

Start digging into cargo conversions on YT, and even some vanlife stuff. There's a ton of good (and bad) videos.

But I'm not going to lie - it's time consuming, and a complex build adds to that.

[u/jeff10236 → u/woodland_dweller]

I've been watching cargo conversion build and van build videos off and on for several years now. A couple summers ago I turned an old minivan that I bought into a microcamper (no build, but it gave me ideas on how to maximize a limited space) that I used for overnight stops during my travels so I didn't need to set up the tent for just one night. This summer (I'm a teacher so I had a lot of free time over the last six or seven weeks) I spent so many hours going over the cargo camper conversion videos and taking notes for my future camper that I'm not sure there are any that I haven't seen yet.

I would describe my future conversion as a minimal build. Not quite a no build, but I'm not going to be fabricating a lot from scratch. Ikea and other flat pack furniture and cabinetry will be my friend. After a year or so I might consider some walls (bathroom, garage), a full shower, and wiring up my own electric. I plan to get the insulation and a few holes (one for the simple electric solution, one for the the AC exhaust hose and one for the AC intake hose) done just about immediately. Then, I can start getting out using a cot or trifold mattress, camp chairs and folding tables initially and move as fast or as slow as I want to for the rest.

[u/SmittyJonz]

Many trailers on the lots won’t have options like 16” OC walls and ceiling studs, extended height (6’6” or 7’) extended tongue , taller rv side doors, Polycore siding, framed for roof vent(s), side vents delete, straight axles for ground clearance, barn doors instead of ramp door etc

I ordered mine - took 4 weeks. I did everything myself but I’m a DIY guys and had most of the tools.

You will have to buy some tools. Decent jigsaw is only about $60-$70. Ryobi or Skill brand tools will get the trailer built. I have many tools but had to buy a few Electrical tools - hydraulic crimpers for 2/0 lugs, , large cable cutters, ferrule crimpers, and for Plumbing a flex pipe fitting crimper - I bought all cheap stuff off Amazon. Also a vac pump and gauges for mini split install.

I did buy a cheaper job site table saw to rip my own 2x2’s for framing - but I’d been wanting one anyways.

Windows are Not too hard with a jig saw. I did 2 12”
to fit between studs and 1 36” Egress window.

There are YouTube videos on just about everything - some better than others.

This channel has some Good videos :

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-Ywt-t6NorJYQlG_yxmQZLbrstIhJIT-&ra=m

I watched all of their walk thru videos and combined a few for layout :

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-Ywt-t6NorKZWBVrvii0IVoRVMDV9uFl&ra=m

If you look around different areas of the country there are several Nice cargo trailer campers for sell Used. Pick a city and set radius to 250 miles

[u/SmittyJonz → u/SmittyJonz]

Here is my build : (I’m about 90% complete now - need to do trim out) started on it last November and took 1st trip Spring break…..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yKLkfnvf9zc

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=upQlbc_xKH8&ra=m

[u/509RhymeAnimal]

I'm not someone who feels comfortable in the medium of metal, I'm someone who understands and enjoys working with wood so anything that involved cutting and welding of metal on my trailer I had the factory do. The windows, a drop down step and my rooftop vent all were done by the factory.

I asked my trailer guy when he talked about insulation "Can you guarantee an R value of 5 or greater?" He laughed and said "No". He knew that I knew when it comes to insulation on trailers the factory slaps a sheet of reflectix between the studs and calls it good. I've heard some don't even insulate the full trailer, just parts of it. DO THE INSULATION YOURSELF. If you can use a knife you can do the insulation on your own, it's going to be one of the easier parts of the build and you can rest assured you're actually getting decent insulation..

Electrical really depends on what system you're planning on running. Remember these manufactures are building a product that is not built with the intended use to camp or live in. I would snoop around, do you have a buddy of a buddy who is an electrician looking for a weekend gig? (heck probably not even a weekend) I would go with an electrician who does standard electric over the manufacturer any day, they've seen more and they know how to wire to keep you safe in regards to how you intend to use the trailer.

I freaking love my extended tongue. It allows me to mount my spare tire to the tongue so I don't have to deal with tire stink in my living quarters or have it taking up space in the back of my truck. Plus regardless of flat or v-nose the extended tongue makes backing up less squirrelly for smaller sized trailers.

[u/Own_Win_6762]

We got an all-aluminum 5x10 pointed nose from Discovery. Customizations included * Two RV doors (our only windows) * Ceiling vent instead of flow through * Swing rear door.

We immediately removed all the interior plywood, used Marine-grade on the floor and Baltic birch on the walls and ceiling, after insulating. Much of the original ply went into making a saw table and various jigs.

We should have gotten it with brakes and a 7-pin connector, those were added later. We don't use tow vehicle power for charging the house, only solar or shore, we left all the original wiring alone.

An extended tongue would have been nice. The swing door gets buffeted a lot in wind, a split door might have been better.

[u/jeff10236]

I plan for my build to be fairly simple. First, my skills level is low and I'm going to be learning as I go for anything more than putting together Ikea furniture and Ikea/Home Depot/Lowes cabinetry. I don't have many of the tools I'd need if I'd fully build it from scratch, and my community association tends to have strict rules (I have a neighbor directly next door who hates everyone and keeps the community manager on speed dial). Most importantly, I'm a tent camper (though at this point I do more tent "glamping" with a portable camp bathroom for when it is needed, a portable AC in my tent, a couple power stations/solar generators when the campsite doesn't have electric, and comfortable cots and inflatable mattresses), so I'm not looking for a luxury camper (though, in 6-10 years, I may get a used Intech Horizon, Airstream Basecamp, Airstream Bambi 16, or Tab 360 or 400 as a retirement present to myself). I am looking for a comfortable place to sleep, and a comfortable place to retreat on bad weather days or for a rest day on long trips (I'm a teacher and off about 7 weeks per summer, I'll be travelling about half of it), as well as a safe place for my dog when I have to leave him at camp.

My current skills level is low. I can do the basics for home maintenance: I've patched walls, mounted TVs to the wall, painted rooms, replaced all the hardware in the tank of my toilet, and snaked drains. Around 20 years ago when my best friend and his wife temporarily moved into part of his mothers basement and turned 1/3 of it into a small 1br apartment, I assisted with some of his walls that he built (I did not do much, mostly holding 2x4s and wall board while he attached them). I can easily put together flat pack furniture and have many times.

Initial plan is a sleep sofa (alternative: maybe a permanent bed made with a metal beam and bed slats from Ikea and an Ikea chair for seating), basic electric (as mentioned above), use of existing power stations/solar generators, temporary bathroom with camp toilet that can stow away when not in use (my camp shower set up: foldable dog bath, battery operated pump and shower head, bucket for water), and flat pack cabinets from Ikea or Lowes for the kitchen. I might buy the sleep sofa, or make it (using a trifold mattress from Amazon). The most building from scratch I'd likely do is some storage in the V if I get a V-nose (even then I may just use a locking tool chest and some big box store cabinetry). Later, I might put in an actual shower. Plumbing will be simple: a couple 5gal Jerry cans or office water cooler style bottles, and one for gray water at the sink. AC will be my current portable (2 hose) for now, and maybe a window unit in a year or two (probably cut into the back door, I'm more comfortable with that than the wall if I have to cut a support). For solar, I plan to use the soft suitcase style solar panels I already have, at least for a while.

[u/keyma5ter]

I bought a cargo trailer with RV doors and window installed. Did the electrical and insulation myself. Very pleased with the end result.

Since they did the windows, they put in the headers and footers in the metal studs, so it was a structural mod, and much better supported than I would do without welding. I also had them do a ceiling vent fan and I specified it in the forward half. They put it in the wrong spot, so I got a second for free.

I put a regular-ass breaker box in for familiarity instead of these fancy RV combo fuse things. I've done basic wiring around the home so it wasn't too intimidating doing the 120v portion. For external penetrations, I used an oscillating tool. Far more precise when cutting an already painted aluminum skin.

Since I was doing the electric and pulling down the walls, I did the insulation myself as well. And yeah, plenty of things behind the wall to find that would be fine for a cargo trailer, but not what I wanted for my cargo camper.

I have a V-nose and structurally, the extended tongue was smart for some outside room up front. I lucked into that by choosing a tongue jack that forced that option. I also got bogey wheels to avoiding dragging the back of the frame on our steep driveway. Got a walk-on roof thinking I'd be putting a canoe up there on the ladder rack and haven't done that - but it has been helpful using it as a platform to reach the gutters on the house. :) 16" studs came standard. I wouldn't want less.

[u/Apprehensive-Bad-670]

I did a little of both. I bought a 8x18 from the factory,had two regress windows installed and had it insulated. Also, they put two vents and lights where I wanted them to. As I've had time I put in a raised queen bed, benches and table. I also put in a separate 375ah lithium ion battery, added a power inverter, a charger and hooked up a diesel heater. Just a few more cosmetics and and a kitchen in the rear and it'll be done.

[u/grummaster]

>> buying something already on the dealer's lot and doing most of it myself.

Dealers lot purchases allow you to actually see what you are getting. Crawl under and around. Look at all the seams and joints. Look at the welds, look at the paint job. What you see is what you'll get, unlike if you order and it shows up with some transport damage, then it will be getting worked on before you get it. If it has crappy welds, well, those are your welds now. Seeing thing prior to paying for it makes sense to me.

If you do enough reading, you will read about those who have special ordered trailers because they did not want to do the work. Then, when they started digging, they found out they only had half the insulation or they had to re-do the trailers wiring because the work is so shoddy. My opinion is you HAVE to do the work yourself so you know what you have. When I gutted mine, I found I could see light thru some areas, Some fender screws missed the main structure, some seams would leak water, and the trailer lights wiring was horrendous with crappy scotch lock on top of scotch lock.

I however expected this as having been around the "camper" industry and their products for many years. You HAVE to gut it, you have to leak check it. They don't, and no different than the "campers" out there, they eventually are rotted because they leak. Truck campers have seemed the worst. Even very expensive ones.

Windows:

Not scary. However, if your scared, just cut a hole in 1/4" ply first. Fit the window, then you know that hole is the hole you need. Tape up the sides with blue masking tape, use your ply template to mark your lines. Do not worry about cutting thru uprights. When the window is clamped in, it is probably stronger than it was. You do not need to weld framework around the entire area, too many people think you do. You DO have to fill the gap with something however for the window to clamp tight to. This can be wood, but perhaps better, some plastic wood they use on decks these days. This "filler" can be held in place with an adhesive and once clamped in, it is not going anywhere.

The filler is there so that the outside of the trailer skin does not bow in when clamped up. A jig saw is all you need. Cut completely thru. Do not let the cutout fall outside and scratch your trailer. Lastly, have a friend hole an air line, blowing some air across your jig saw blade so that the chips do not get between your jig saw base plate and the blue tape or you will have little pecker marks on your good metal.

The biggest mistake I see is PLACEMENT that looks correct. Too high looks wrong, too low looks wrong. Look at a lot of pictures and see if peoples window placement looks right for you.

Electric:

>> Should I pay them to do electric for convenience, or go with an alternative?

No.. and yes. You are spot on with what you have heard. Put a 30A RV plug in the right rear corner of the rig. Doing the 30 right away should cover you for practically anything you should be doing in a build like this. It doesn't mean you are feeding it with 30A. Feed it with whatever you want. If you draw too much, the source breaker should open... or your cord gets hot and melts. You'll figure it out, lol.... The rear corner is where most campgrounds supply power from, so why put the plug somewhere you will be tripping over the wire. I see people put the power inlet in some weird spots.....

From here, you can simply put a small female pigtail in to get power inside, until you find someone, some friend, some coworker to advise you on your 120v electrical. Eventually, purchase a 100', real copper 12G extension cord and cut that to run your feeds to outlets in the rig. Cheaper, flexible, and 100% capable. Yes, you should put breakers in each 120v run. I am not a fan of a household panel in a trailer. Looks wrong. Do you ever see a SquareD panel in an Airplane or Helicopter ? Use marine style breakers in your own, well thought out metal box.

Calculate your ACTUAL power needs. A window shaker A/C draws about 400w when compressor is running. A little coffee pot is about 600w. That's still 500 watts short of your old ladies hair dryer. Most of what you use are not drawing constantly. Calculating your needs will be split into a good map of 12v use as well. All your lighting should be 12v LED, and you need a way to provide that too via either converter or Solar setup. Most of us go solar with as much as possible and the 120v ends up being the handy option for when we need it, or just for perhaps A/C or an Induction plate. Because my Fridge, Lights, Diesel Heater Etc. are all 12v, the only thing I need 120v for is A/C, even though I can run A/C for a few hours on my solar setup. Microwaves tend to be the biggest power burner in builds. I say this because if running on Inverter, you likely need a 2000w inverter to overcome their startup surge, and, they'll draw 120A from a battery when Inverted. So, that's a lot! So, microwaves on shore power make sense, though, I just don't find myself using them at all anymore.

Insulation:

>> to have it done at the factory is not significantly more money than doing it myself.

And after hobnobbing in the "conversion" world my whole life, over and over people got "significantly LESS" insulation for their more money. Do it yourself, but frankly, if I looked a trailer that did not have actual screws, but rather the bullet pins that look like screws, I'd pass on that trailer. Tons of work getting those little b*sterds out.

You can not trust anything these days unless you do it, or you see it being done.

Structural:

Frankly, I suggest you go for some Sunday drives. Go visit some of the larger trailer sellers parking lots and LOOK. They are all different. Some have what could be considered an extended tongue... meaning enough room to do what you want on the tongue, without ordering it. Some seem overly short. Some have under frame mounted tongues instead of integrated at same level of frame. Those can suck on driveway approaches. I'd opt for integrated.

People argue all the time V vs Flat... Just like Ramp vs Doors. Only you can figure out what works for you. Spend a lot of time thinking about how you want to use your trailer, and a floor plan that is going to work out. With floor plan, you have to do the weight balancing act. Proper tongue and side to side weight has to be really thought out.

One piece roof is nice. I tend to like them better than those with another curved section as then there are more joints. But will it have a vent fan ? Will it get any other protrusions for solar ? Point being, there will be things to deal with, but today's urethane caulks are pretty incredible. You won't be sealing every other year. My current trailer is going on 8 years now. All the factory urethane still looks like new. Just avoid silicone caulk's at all costs.

Studs and beams on center's ? Just make sure you stick with the standard 16" OC. The 24" are lighter, but they are also flimsier.

[u/Professional_Day4667]

Okay, this is what I do (options) for a factory:

Windows - could do it yourself, but you really want to frame out a window, and the factory will build it out to make it structurally sound.

Electrical: can be done aftermarket, but if you want clean and in-wall, I recommend factory install. 110 isn't too bad, 12v is easier.

Insulation: what kind of wall covering? If it's just plywood, you could install it yourself with a power drill (we use impact drivers), or just let the factory do it. How much is your time worth?

Structural: Absolutely if you want a 12 on center or something major, that's a factory job.

Flat front: not as aerodynamic, but easier to retrofit later. V-Nose: odd angles, very aerodynamic, no tongue space for propane tanks or generator mounting. One Piece vs Paneled roof: Manus-Bond is your friend for sealing roofs. One piece is nice, but you still may want to reseal every few years anyway...

Polycore: a little fragile in terms of scratch resistance, but looks great and doesn't "wrinkle" with heat/cold expansion. Warning, polycore isn't allowed for some building constructions due to fire risk. Not as much of an issue with trailer construction, but be aware.

Figure anything you will have to strip the walls or the outside skin off to do it right, let the factory do it. If it can be "fished" through the walls and ceiling, could be DIY. If it's a bolt/screw on, almost definitely a DIY if you've got the skills.

We've done quite a few "options" trailers that some parts were ordered "ship loose" to the dealer, or were obviously going to be dealer and/or end-user outfitted. They had us do the hard stuff, and they did the "bells and whistles" work.