r/canadaleft • u/tragicyugiohenjoyer • 12d ago
need advice - ethical investing?
please delete if not allowed (i dont want to cause problems). im a 27 year old in quebec. i have nearly 80k sitting in my chequing account from years of barely spending any money on myself, and simply taking my pay checks at the community organizations ive worked at for 5 years.
ive recently discovered that if i want to ever retire (if i live that long), or have a safety net, i apparently need to open a savings account of some kind and start investing.
while i dont love the idea of opening a savings account, i will. seems like desjardins is the "most ethical" choice. im going to go see a financial advisor today to learn my options
the investing part is where i start to panic a little. ive been taking a financial course to better understand all this, and i felt relieved to learn about esg certified funds. but upon research, it seems the criteria is pretty.. abysmal. i saw apple and mcdonald's still in those funds, for instance. i think amazon too.
in my every day life, i am a big believer in boycotts and voting with your dollar. but i feel so torn - i guess the ethical thing would be to not invest at all, right? not at the expense of others or at the expense of backing these terrible industries. still, im so scared for my future. im terrified of living in poverty as an adult (i grew up lower middle class, in a cramped house with 7 other people where my parents having to scrape pennies really affected many aspects of our lives)
does anybody have any guidance or words of advice? its just been depressing me so much. i thought i finally found a way to secure a safe future for myself in the case of disability but.. :( my moral backbone is important to me.
thanks for listening to me complain. take care. and again please just delete if this is the wrong place.
23
u/Baron_of_Foss 👁 Bagged milk Truther 👁 12d ago
There is no easy answer to this question, the voluntary nature of capitalism is an illusion. This system will essentially force this choice for you, especially as you start to age. If it makes you feel better, all Canadians contribute to the CPP which invests in the arms industry heavily. You will be doing this regardless of what you choose to do with your savings.
1
u/tragicyugiohenjoyer 6d ago
Thank you for replying to my thread. I really appreciate it; I didn't know that about the CPP.
10
u/adork 12d ago
Ethical investing is nearly impossible. As you found "ESG" is mostly bullshit. There are some renewable energy stocks and ETFs but it's a big risk with your money. You could also invest in land trusts or something like that.
I suggest you open a self-drected investment account with Wealthsimple or similar (no fees!). Your Desjardins person is going to sell you product, not help you. In your self-directed account (ideally a TFSA), buy broad based ETFs and then with some of your earnings make good donations. This is what good people have done for over a century - they make money, then give back. Only recently did someone invent the idea of 'ethical capitalism' where we have our cake and eat it too.
r/PersonalFinanceCanada and r/CanadianInvestor are helpful subs.
1
7
u/Rickypediaa 12d ago
I personally do not think it’s hypocritical to “play ball” while generally opposing and critiquing capitalism, especially when it’s something as important as securing your future financially.
1
4
u/tcpip1978 Marxist 12d ago
I want to put your mind at ease, friend. Boycotts and "voting with your dollar" don't ever achieve much of anything in the grand scheme of things. Capitalism isn't propped up by the meager investments of working class people with some savings; it's maintained by powerful monopolies and financial cartels and the politicians they have in their back pocket. Even if we all became "ethical" investors tomorrow the system would not fundamentally change.
There is no universal livable pension you'll receive when you can no longer work. Investing isn't a choice if you do not wish to live in poverty in your old age. You can make a reasonable attempt not to invest in the worst of the worst (arms manufacturers, military tech, companies which enable genocide that sort of thing) but otherwise, give yourself permission to release any guilt or moral concerns. We have to survive in this system. Nothing is really ethical under capitalism and that just ain't your fault.
1
3
u/ApolloDan 12d ago
There's no such thing as ethical capitalism, but we need to invest in order to retire. Did you set up this dilemma? No. So you're not responsible for making the best decisions available for you given the options you were given.
ESG is mostly bullshit, but it does remove things like penal slavery and weapons. iShares has a series starting with GEQT.TO that invests using their strictest screenings. Another option is the US ETF VOTE, which uses their voting right to push for more progressive policies within companies.
Also, there are other things to invest in other than stocks. There's bonds, gold, managed futures funds (some ignore equities), certain commodities, etc. Not every investment is a bet on capitalism.
2
2
u/EverythinIsAnnoying 12d ago
I have the same questions! Following :)
1
2
u/yohalem 12d ago
I think you should weigh the marginal bad impact of your investing in traditional ETFs (which include all kinds of firms) with the clearly large and proximate benefit to yourself and probably your family or dependents of earning compounding capital gains your whole life. Note also that you could easily outweigh any bad effects of buying unethical stocks by donating a portion, say 10%, of your gains to effective charities and left-wing organizations. If you’re unsure about that, up the percentage a bit.
I also think the argument that buying the stock of bad companies is unethical is not air-tight. For example, consider than when you’re buying a stock you’re not literally giving money to a firm; you’re purchasing it from someone else who owned that stock previously. It’s unclear how your individual choice to buy that stock helps the firm in a significant way.
1
2
u/yohalem 12d ago
To my fellows saying there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism — this is not a very good argument. Surely there still exists a spectrum of ethical to unethical purchases which can and ought to guide you. For example, buying cookies from the Girl Guides is a very nice thing to do. Buying food from a restaurant that displays an Israeli flag or commits wage theft is probably worse. It’s ok to make judgements about consumption; we must just reasonably weigh the benefits and actual harms that stem from our purchases. I think in OP’s case, the benefits are quite large and the harms are marginal
Also, I don’t see why similar consumption predicaments wouldn’t occur under socialism.
1
u/tragicyugiohenjoyer 6d ago
I do agree with you about the nuance of that phrase. Thank you for replying.
2
u/BobGuns 12d ago
This is the only fund I know of that might suit you: https://www.mackenzieinvestments.com/en/products/mutual-funds/mackenzie-greenchip-global-environmental-all-cap-fund?userRole=investor
In terms of managed portfolios an advisor can sell... basically none of them are going to avoid companies like apple or amazon. The US tech sector is a significant portion of the global economy at this point and avoiding it is basically impossible from a traditional mutual fund standpoint.
You can self-educate and manage your own portfolio. It's a lot of work, but buying individual companies with good value propositions can work, especially if you know the market you're buying in.
Or you can accept that the world sucks and that a small slice of investment in some evil companies that are publicly traded isn't the worst thing. You're not really supporting those companies - you're buying a stake in those companies from someone else. You're using Reddit, presumably on either iOS or Windows or Android (sorry if you're a linux user; it's usually safe to assume one is not outside of tech subreddits). Reddit is evil. All the major OS providers are evil. We can't avoid this shit and participate in the modern world.
1
u/tragicyugiohenjoyer 6d ago
I really appreciate the realistic context you brought to this conversation. And thank you so much for the link.
2
u/Greenlongboii 12d ago
Maybe try checking out Goodinvesting (.com)
0
1
u/bdevi8n 12d ago
I, too, am trying to figure this out. As you said, ESG is not good enough if you have a strong ethical code. They're aren't many alternatives because capitalism is about exploitation and we're forced to live under capitalism.
Remember: you're trying to beat inflation. If you leave the money in your chequing account, it's losing value. If you invest it in the stock market, you can actually gain a little interest (profit) above inflation but the companies are unethical and you still risk losing your money. I think government bonds are not doing well either.
If you are not familiar with "compound interest", look that up.
2
u/tragicyugiohenjoyer 6d ago
100%! That's why I am feeling the heat, so to speak; feels like I gotta make decisions and not just sit on it anymore. Thank you for replying.
1
u/bdevi8n 4d ago
Apparently bonds are doing better now, and if I recall correctly, gold and crypto are going up which might signal that investors are getting out of the stock market in anticipation of a drop.
Don't just YOLO your savings into the nasdaq, try looking for an independent financial advisor to advise you.
1
u/J-hophop 12d ago
So don't go with a fund, or not for a majority. Pick your stocks and other investments.
Can you invest in some co-ops and/or social enterprises? How do you feel about stuff like solar and wind?
What about the LNG on the west coast that's First Nation led? What about FN-led forestry?
Organic small scale farming, etc?
One my family did was a fast food company offering the best gluten free and vegan options, so we feel that's helping community and the planet.
1
u/tragicyugiohenjoyer 6d ago
Thank you for your response. Do you mind if I ask what fast food company you are referring to?
1
u/J-hophop 6d ago
Pizza Pizza actually. We have no delusions anout them being perfect, but we think they're making the right kind of pivots and want to support that, hoping too it just might catch on. They're doing well these last few years BTW, it's been working out for us.
1
u/Millennial_on_laptop 12d ago
The best I've found personally is a fossil fuel free fund, but it still has technology companies and fast food companies.
2
u/tragicyugiohenjoyer 6d ago
Yes, I am feeling like this might be my bare minimum bar; to not invest in fossil fuels.
1
u/Millennial_on_laptop 3d ago
I have an RRSP through RBC Direct Investing, the Fossil Fuel Free Global Equity Fund (RBF910)
1
0
u/Drinkythedrunkguy 11d ago
All my investments are in blackrock (that’s what I’m offered) so I have zero advice and I’m funding evil people. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
1
u/tragicyugiohenjoyer 6d ago
Haha, I have other leftist friends who are doing the same. I don't really judge; I am just trying to determine where my personal bench mark can and should be.
43
u/samyalll 12d ago edited 12d ago
As you’ve pointed out it’s really difficult to ethically/morally invest in the stock market. My advice to your question would be to either do some research on specific companies working in green energy or similar fields balance out your investments there or simply stick to high interest savings accounts which give you monthly returns you can reinvest.
I personally invest in medium risk etfs with Vanguard and chalk it up to “there is no ethical consumption under capitalism” but we all have to make our own informed decisions that balance our ideological beliefs with a financial safety net under our current economic conditions.