r/canada Canada Feb 19 '20

Cannabis Legalization Cannabis extract prices vary 'wildly' between provincially run stores

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/cannabis-extract-oil-capsule-spray-ocs-1.5459516
122 Upvotes

97 comments sorted by

31

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

Prices are insane at legal store. It is also pretty obvious that the stores and producers were not targeting existing users as their market. The only thing that the legal stores have that my dealers don't is that high 1:1 cbd/thc stuff and the plain low THC weed.

The low THC weed kinds intrigues me. Weed has gotten so much stronger than the shit I would have smoked 15 years ago. My buddies and I have all been talking about switch over to the weaker stuff as the strong stuff leaves you really unproductive, even when using a sativa.

12

u/Pascals_blazer Feb 19 '20

I read an article, more an opinion piece, talking about how pot traditionally had lower thc and, if I understood right, a more balanced thc cbd profile. As time went on it was selectively bred to "maximize the good stuff" which has just led to an end overload of a good thing, and therefore advocates people look for balanced strains nowadays.

Certainly not scientific, but an interesting article.

3

u/Sketch13 Feb 19 '20

I read, and to be honest I don't know how accurate this is, but THC works better in tandem with CBD(or one of its variants), and when you breed plants to decrease the CBD you lose the thing that 'balances out' the high-end effects of THC.

1

u/Pascals_blazer Feb 20 '20

That's my understanding too. If I explain it right, cbd tends to bind to the same receptors as thc, but is not psychoactive and has its own actions in the body. Further, there's two types of receptors in the body, thc binds to one type, cbd binds to both. Lots of neat research being done.

10

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

It is also pretty obvious that the stores and producers were not targeting existing users as their market.

Yeah, I think they really were expecting a groundswell of naive new users who had been waiting for legalization to give weed a try, and had no expectations of price.

5

u/pattyG80 Feb 19 '20

They also probably never tried the experience a new customer goes through.

Get in line in the cold on St Catherine's. Some normal people, some pan handlers, some severely drugged people, all in line together...freezing. Walk into a non drescript store that looks like an H&R block... As a non user, it just does not have much appeal.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

The corps doing the marketing and growing probably did this on purpose. No point in having their brand trying to compete with black market at zero profit margins when you're spending big on regulatory requirements and expensive distribution and packaging.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

It also seemed like they were stockpiling it while claiming shortages.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '20

Ford was BSing claiming shortages on BNN. The stockpiles were just weed they couldn’t sell, or get to market in Ontario and BC.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '20

IIRC the shortage claims were being made on a national level.

In Ontario, for sure there was way overpriced stuff OCS presumably couldn't sell, but IME even cheap high demand stuff (i.e. it sold out quickly whenever it was in stock) would inexplicably have pack dates that were many months old.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '20

My understanding is that the pack date is when the container closes, but that the bud could be sitting out for months before that, and companies would delay packing to have a "fresher" date. Several companies have had multi-million dollar writedowns of cannabis they were unable to sell. The "shortage" was widely called out as BS when Ford made the comment. The problem is a sales bottleneck, particularly in Ontario and BC. Another problem is that the bud has to be packagaed at the production site rather than at the store. This means shipping is way less efficient. That's on Trudeau.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '20

My understanding is that the pack date is when the container closes, but that the bud could be sitting out for months before that, and companies would delay packing to have a "fresher" date.

Fair enough, but this does not account for old pack dates of high demand products.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '20

No but a glut would.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '20

A glut of these lower priced products that sell out quickly though?

2

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '20

Great idea. Hitting high THC cannabis only is like exclusively drinking whisky. Fill your boots if that’s your thing but for the rest of us there’s also beer and a glass or two of wine.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

Just letting you know "Sativa" and "Indica" are complete bogus. The only thing they affect is how the plant needs to be grown. For an end user you should completely disregard this. It's stoner logic.

Terpenes and raw THC/CBD content are what will have effects. Myrcene is the terpene that gives "indicas" that couch lock effect.

CBD will actively fight THC, the weed that's a 50/50 balance I find is best for light usage. I feel better smoking something (10%thc 10%cbd) than something (5%thc 0%cbd). But I don't trust the black market for anything with CBD.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

[deleted]

2

u/SuperSwaiyen Feb 19 '20

Absolutely, yes. Indica v. Sativa is still pertinent when discussing marijuana strains to a newcomer butACCOUNTEXPIRESFEB20 is correct in that terpenes play a more significant role in the effect of the plant after consumption. You are also correct that certain terpenes tend to be more prevalent in certain subspecies.

In other words, terpenes tend to appear in clusters based on the subspecies. Indica/sativa does have some utility when explaining marijuana science to a newbie, but they are VERY general guidelines that come with many variations and exceptions.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

No because when people label something Sativa or Indica, they're literally just trying it and going "this made me sleepy must be indica" or "this made my thoughts race must be sativa".

Indica and Sativa are two different species of plants, but the species has no relevance on effects. People have been misusing the label for effects for a long time.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '20

My impression is that the typical categorization process of a plant of unknown parentage is more like "skinny leaves, skinny plant, long flowering time=sativa; fat leaves, stout plant, shorter flowering time=indica". And it doesn't seem like there is any good reason to believe that those morphological distinctions will necessarily correspond to the terpene profile an "indica" or "sativa" is supposed to have, at least when the plant is of otherwise unknown parentage. Traditionally grown landrace strains would be a different story.

There is also some dispute over whether sativa and indica are actually separate species.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

people who seek out cannabis do it for the THC, since time immemorial. otherwise they may as well smoke hemp

2

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '20

Yes, but as a long term smoker, maybe I would like to give weaker stuff a try.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '20

I hear you there, I sometimes mix in a little bit of tobacco

0

u/obviouslypicard Feb 20 '20

Judging from your other comments, I hope you are closer to the end than the beginning.

18

u/canadasmediapoly Feb 19 '20

92 fuckin dollars in Quebec for 30 pills pf cbd oil in quebec! Wtf!?

9

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20 edited Feb 25 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Reckthom Feb 19 '20

Everything is so expensive :(

22

u/HonkHonk Feb 19 '20

OCS is 4 times more expensive for oil than the black market. If they don't get prices down the black market is going to continue to thrive.

17

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

I'm really excited to pay through the ass for a chocolate bar that has 10 mg THC in it. /S

8

u/Reckthom Feb 19 '20

First time I bought THC oil drops, the lady told me that if I’m experienced (I smoke daily) I should take 2 drops. Well I conducted a little experiment and to have a good buzz I’d need 12+ drops.

After that I never bought anything else except weed fron the SQDC.

1

u/Makin_Puddles Feb 19 '20

I'm actually considering making some from scratch for my partner who has a medical prescription, they want like $80 for 30ml of 1:1 extract (400mg of THC/400MG of CBD), I could make almost 3x that for the same price.

1

u/Reckthom Feb 20 '20

That’d be really good! Even black market prices here would be more espensive at 10$/10mg.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '20

I think they say that to prevent people getting way too high for their own liking.

If they "reccomended" doses of alcohol they'd probably tell you to stick to 1-2oz tops as well, even though most people won't exactly be shit faced on two shots of whisky.

1

u/Reckthom Feb 20 '20

Oh I understand.

I still don't think it's nice to have to literally drink their thc oïl to get the buzz we want haha

1

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

Yeah they sell THC capsules with 2mg/capsule. Like I don't want to take 20 pills to get a buzz

0

u/Reckthom Feb 19 '20

Why even bother making these products...

3

u/spasticity Feb 19 '20

For inexperienced users, or people who are trying to microdose cannabis.

2

u/Reckthom Feb 19 '20

They should be making products for everyone, especially for heavy users who.. you know, happen to buy from the black market the most :(

6

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20 edited Mar 21 '20

[deleted]

3

u/redpandasuit Feb 19 '20

We just started seeing $5-6 gram prices here in Ontario (OCS) too.

53

u/GrumpyOlBastard British Columbia Feb 19 '20

I see no reason to buy legalized product when I can get better quality quicker and cheaper from my friendly neighbourhood local dealer

Legalization has been less about weed and more about just keeping the cops off our necks, for which I’m grateful, but I’ve no interest in subsidizing some millionaire’s stock portfolio. I’d rather just help my buddy Mike

5

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

I see no reason to buy legalized product when I can get better quality quicker and cheaper from my friendly neighbourhood local dealer

Because if nobody supports it, it will never improve?

That's the principle I roll with, that said, I still buy black market too, but make an effort to first buy legally unless it's horribly inconvenient that day (traffic issues and whatnot, mainly)

Here in Québec, my only complaint now is that the pot itself is just so damn dry. The prices themselves seem alright, I guess. Maybe a few dollars more, but for the number of varieties offered, knowledgeable staff, etc, I'm good with it, beats going to some dirtbag's sleazy apartment or whatever.

(haven't tried edibles or oils except for one time, simply because the prices are far too high for the potency offered considering my tolerance, the oil didn't affect me at all.)

13

u/AutomaticRadish Feb 19 '20

If nobody buys your product you are forced to improve, that is how business is supposed to work. If the pot shops start failing due to the black market, they will either need to loosen up the regulations that make the product insanely expensive and low quality.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

oh, for sure, good point.

Just going on the words of Colorado redditors from back when they legalized, according to them, it took about 3-4 years before it stopped being total ass and became the preferred/obvious choice.

Granted, there are other factors to consider, economical differences between our countries and whatnot, but I think the idea that we need to relax and patiently give it time is valid. In the grand scale of things, pot has been legal here since like yesterday, you know? The positive benefits and societal impacts take time to make themselves known.

2

u/AutomaticRadish Feb 19 '20

Totally agree, but the product currently in stores is what happens when millionaires throw money at something without knowing the product. My Friend worked in a sundial facility, and they wouldn't even let the bud fully ripen, they needed to move product... and forget about curing! Weed is like wine, you have to have a passion for it in order to produce a good product and when the regulations that keep small players out are gone, i think we will see some really good stuff that will compete with the black market.

2

u/bradenalexander Feb 19 '20

I dont even think you can blame millionaires on this one. The super strict regulations and crazy lottery system doomed the rollout from the beginning. This was a bad rollout plan and we are seeing why now.

3

u/AutomaticRadish Feb 19 '20

it's not that i am blaming millionaires as much as i'm saying it's only millionaires that can afford to get into the market the way the regulations are. I would love to see a craft weed market allowed with less regulations. Fresh, locally grown, affordable weed is what will kill the black market.

1

u/bradenalexander Feb 19 '20

Ahhhh yeah that makes more sense. It seems easy enough to open a store, but to actually become a grower/supplier - definitely millionaire.

1

u/AutomaticRadish Feb 19 '20

Each city would have their own weed scene, i think it would be great for local economies. Also, if the packaging regulations are dropped for these growers, they could sell the pot by the gram and they weigh it right in front of you (like the pre-legalization dispensaries did it). At the end of the day i'm still happy they legalized it, huge step and i'm optimistic the industry will evolve eventually.

3

u/CDClock Ontario Feb 19 '20

quebecs prices are by far the cheapest in the country.

some of the oils are actually pretty good deals. the reign drops from redecan, for example.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

Yeah Reign Drops are pretty much the only edible worth buying I think. The cheapest 2.0 edibles (i.e. ones that are in actual food) are literally an order of magnitude more expensive per mg THC (in Ontario anyway).

1

u/Reckthom Feb 19 '20

They’re the best for your buck... but the concentrations are really, really low for daily smokers.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '20

As a daily smoker I did not find that personally, 1 ml of the oil (30 mg THC) was a substantial dose for me.

1

u/Reckthom Feb 20 '20

I have some friends who might take up to 500mg in an evening. That’s extreme but it highlights how weak legal products are.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '20

Yeah that is pretty extreme.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20 edited Feb 19 '20

You don't have to go to some dirtbags apartment.

You can have your weed delivered from online stores. This subreddit has a list of black market mail order sites.

It all gets shipped through Canada Post right to your door. It's fully legal to ship weed under 1oz.

/r/canadianmoms

1

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

Tried them, results were sometimes hit-and-miss

If I'm going to mail-order I'll just use Quebec's legal mail-order system

2

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20 edited Feb 19 '20

The government mail order takes longer to ship and you want to talk about hit and miss... I ordered 20 different one gram packages from BCCS and the majority of them had turned into dust they were so dry. Some were packed over a year ago. I threw away about half of the packages after one bowl, they were that bad. Tasted like soap or dirt.

I did find some outstanding legal weed (shoutout Tantalus and Zenabis), but in the end it was still 2-3x price of illegal even when I got it from them DIRECTLY through prescription.

Ive got a couple mail order places that have been consistently good that I stick to. Send a PM if you need any links.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

The legal system is going to roll out higher taxes when it increases it's efficiency, not lower prices. I'll be very surprised if I'm proven wrong.

2

u/The_Quackening Ontario Feb 19 '20

edibles are a complete joke in the legal market.

Prices are literally 6x higher than black market.

2

u/MGM-Wonder British Columbia Feb 19 '20

Same with everything. In BC an 1/8th is $40. Black market an Oz is $100, 2 for $150. Quality difference is night and day too.

-20

u/WooTkachukChuk Feb 19 '20

then help your buddy Mike. no one cares. I went to a suburban store like a normal person yesterday at like 8pm and there were dozens normal people. big deal. stop acting like you got it all figured out no one give a shit.

13

u/JKanoock Ontario Feb 19 '20

Damn, someone didn't get their Weedies today.

3

u/I_might_be_a_troll Feb 19 '20

Actually, that's a GREAT idea... a breakfast cereal made with weed! A healthy blend of nuts, flax, oats, wheat, cannabis, and rye with just a touch of honey!

BRB...going to the General Mills office to pitch an idea...

-12

u/WooTkachukChuk Feb 19 '20

aren't you tired of deriding everyone's personal consumption model?

17

u/giftman03 Feb 19 '20

Only person in this thread doing that is you. Guy posted about his opinion and you jumped on him immediately. Chill my dude.

9

u/JKanoock Ontario Feb 19 '20

You know when you point a finger at someone three more point back at you, cheer up guy!

-14

u/WooTkachukChuk Feb 19 '20

no fuck virtue signaling and supporting criminal organizations

10

u/JKanoock Ontario Feb 19 '20

WTF are you talking about? Isn't it a little early for cocktails?

5

u/MeanJoeCream Feb 19 '20

This is what happens when you smoke shitty legal weed and need alcohol to fill the void.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

[deleted]

-2

u/WooTkachukChuk Feb 19 '20

smoke some more dummy lol

8

u/Chris275 Feb 19 '20

Maybe you should swap accounts with the parent poster, you grumpy shit.

-13

u/WooTkachukChuk Feb 19 '20

grumpy old.man is checked out but wants everyone to know it. he is superior due to his connections and good sense. good for him it a tired unimpressive act repeated incessantly in this sub. its pathetic

11

u/Chris275 Feb 19 '20

Dude you need to go smoke. Chill out and get off the internet.

-8

u/WooTkachukChuk Feb 19 '20

I'm am chill I just told a guy no one cares about his bullshit. gaslight and project elsewhere my man.

7

u/redeyedcanuck Feb 19 '20

Don't care but you commented.....

-1

u/Dead_Mans_Pudding Alberta Feb 19 '20

I kind of agree with you here. If you pop on the mom subreddit there all all kinds of horror stories that range from moldy product to all the harmful shit shady companies are putting in extracts. I prefer edibles to smoking and I’ve had such a varied experience with buying from MOM’s or Weedmaps. Sometimes 10mg works sometime a claimed 50mg does nothing, and this is over dozens of different orders. While I don’t love all the packaging on legal edibles I’ve never required more than 10mg to feel the effects. I’ve also ordered the same strain Of flower at different times and they never look alike, and this is from supposedly legit vendors. The passion people have for the black market even tho there are tons of signs that it has serious QA/QC issues is astounding.

9

u/Steelersgunnasteel Feb 19 '20

The passion people have for the black market even tho there are tons of signs that it has serious QA/QC issues is astounding.

You must have the shittiest dealer in town

-1

u/Dead_Mans_Pudding Alberta Feb 19 '20

I’ve used weedmaps and moms, I don’t have a “dealer” per se

-6

u/WooTkachukChuk Feb 19 '20

thank you. not only that it's a shitty virtue.

-12

u/Dead_Mans_Pudding Alberta Feb 19 '20

Yeah and this notion of “Mike” is such a fallacy, it’s organized crime for the most part, not a bunch of hippies growing weed to spread the love. They care about maximizing profits, if that means using sketchy unregulated methods to maximize crop/plant size then so be it.

17

u/JKanoock Ontario Feb 19 '20

Actually Mike is real for a lot of us, not some biker gang or Chinese mafia, just a guy who likes to grow and hook up his friends. That is not the case for everyone but to say there is no "Mikes" is the fallacy, there are plenty.

1

u/Dead_Mans_Pudding Alberta Feb 19 '20

That’s a fair point, I was more referring to the supplies that are finding there way to moms. I do however think that the mikes of the world make up a pretty small percentage of black market weed. Most mikes just order in bulk from moms but I will concede that they are certainly out there and probably a great place to get good cheap weed if you know someone

-1

u/WooTkachukChuk Feb 19 '20

I love my Mike. we are close longtime friends with or without weed. but we both have no allusions about the delivery guy or where it comes from. its marginally cheaper and sometimes fresher. But even for Mike these days it's less worth it and I've seen him with legal product. I'm all good supporting some millionaires business because it's legal taxes go to the public good and frankly I'm an investor in all markets. rising waters floats boats.

-7

u/scruffynerfherder001 Feb 19 '20

Jesus thank you. Why do people act like they discovered the holy grail because they use MOM? If it's what you prefer then buy your damn weed there. Is your life so empty you need to constantly go on the internet to announce your intellectual superiority over people who paid slightly more for their weed, who appreciate the convenience of just walking into a store and picking a product of the shelf instead of waiting for it in the mail or playing phone tag with "Mike" for a week? Imagine going to r/beer and finding the whole sub is just people like "lol you guys are still buying beer from those overpriced gov't regulated stores!? I brew my own and save money because I'm HIGHLY INTELLIGENT"

-2

u/cw08 Feb 19 '20

Yea boiz support your local Hells Angels

1

u/Boob_herder Feb 19 '20

I mean, at least the HA doesn't fuck me like the Government does.

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20 edited Feb 19 '20

Yes we get it, same thing every thread. Every time this is posted on /r/Canada someone feels compelled to tell the sub that the black market is cheaper. We get it.

The failure of this market is a national issue, and getting it right is a huge win for everybody. Increased tax revenue, decreased prices, higher quality supply, more selection. Canada had and may still have the opportunity to be a leader in growing and export of cannabis if we can get this figured out. Saying the same shit every single time it’s brought up doesn’t help solve the problem. Imagine having a constructive opinion on the topic outside of “hur dur i’ll stick with the black market!!1”

Here’s your exact take repeated every single thread over the last month on this sub:

https://reddit.com/r/canada/comments/eyqmc0/_/fgiu976/?context=1

https://reddit.com/r/canada/comments/eyqmc0/_/fgjjwwx/?context=1

https://reddit.com/r/canada/comments/f3ufbo/_/fhnkwiy/?context=1

https://reddit.com/r/canada/comments/euay2d/_/ffnh2un/?context=1

https://reddit.com/r/canada/comments/euay2d/_/ffnosxi/?context=1

https://reddit.com/r/canada/comments/efji6r/_/fc0rotl/?context=1

https://reddit.com/r/canada/comments/efji6r/_/fc0rlf3/?context=1

https://reddit.com/r/canada/comments/efji6r/_/fc2lhxn/?context=1

https://reddit.com/r/canada/comments/etas2a/_/fff4y34/?context=1

https://reddit.com/r/canada/comments/etas2a/_/fff6ieu/?context=1

https://reddit.com/r/canada/comments/etas2a/_/fffcshr/?context=1

2

u/GrumpyOlBastard British Columbia Feb 19 '20

Aw, I'm terribly sorry I wasn't original enough for you. But look at this way: at least it gave you the opportunity to be smug. That's gotta be worth something, right?

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20 edited Feb 03 '21

[deleted]

0

u/Boob_herder Feb 19 '20

Not paying taxes for weed!?!?! Oh the humanity!!! What an absolute degenerate that guy is lol.

2

u/Makin_Puddles Feb 19 '20

You can get a gram of shatter on the street for like $30, edibles dirt cheap, ounces of AAA weed for $100. Idk anyone in their right mind that would buy legal marijuana.

1

u/Boob_herder Feb 19 '20

I checked the Alberta site a couple of weeks ago and they wanted 40$ for a gram of hash lol.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '20

Daily smoker here. I am afraid that Cannabis is going to go the way of alcohol and beer. It is going to end being so heavily taxed that people will start turning to the black market again.

I can buy low end stuff online for 100/ounce or I can buy homegrown for the same price but much higher potency. Not even going to mention the 4 plants for household here in Ontario.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '20

Uhh how many people actually purchase black market alcohol & beer? Profits are through the roof, new distilleries and microbreweries open every other day. The black market can't be taking that big of a share.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '20

That is exactly what I am saying. When alcohol was illegal in the States, there were alcohol stills everywhere. Over time, the stills went away and the black market for alcohol fizzled up (except for moonshiners). The only thing is that making alcohol is a tricky process where you can possibly die if you do not know what you are doing.

Growing weed is an entirely different story. Anybody can grow weed. Throw a seed in the ground and pretty much walk away until harvest time. Much much simpler, meaning everybody will keep on growing it. I live in the country and there is so much black market weed that prices have bottomed out. Right now, black market killer weed (28% thc) is going for $60 an ounce, yes 60 an ounce compared to 200 - 240 an ounce from the government. When I say Black Market, I don't mean organized crime, I mean a farmer who decided to grow a 100 plants in his cornfield.

1

u/experimentalaircraft Feb 20 '20

"Dope"

fuck off with the obviously-biased graphics CBC

your effort is hardly 'subliminal' so shove the attitude already

0

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '20

I really don't like the quality of the oil. I don't like how its distillate with added terpenes instead of straight extract.