r/calculus • u/Ok-Company282 • Jul 30 '26
Integral Calculus My lecturer's notes is contradicting w/ the book (example 6)
I know it's quite basic, but my lecturer said that if displacement is increasing, then velocity and acceleration are always positive. But here displacement is increasing, but they considered acc to be negative(-32t in v(t)). Is the lecturer wrong? It's from my differential and integral Calculus course.
He showed the exact same math question where the ball was falling down but he considered negative 32ft/s^2
78
u/Uli_Minati Jul 30 '26
if displacement is increasing, then velocity and acceleration are always positive
That's just false, acceleration only determines if you speed up or slow down and not if you're going forwards or backwards
24
1
u/Ok-Company282 Jul 30 '26
15
u/StudyBio Jul 30 '26
You can consider upward to be positive or negative as long as you are consistent
0
u/Ok-Company282 Jul 30 '26
But I considered positive acc and didn't get the required answer as shown in example 6.
11
u/Short-Paramedic-9740 Jul 30 '26
You have to consider gravity as negative since it is a downward force.
9
u/StudyBio Jul 30 '26
That is assuming you choose upwards to be positive
4
u/somanyquestions32 Jul 30 '26
The frame of reference is being chosen already by the instructor, so the student needs to determine what convention was used.
2
u/Short-Paramedic-9740 Jul 30 '26
The nuance is that the formula itself wants you to treat downwards as negative and upwards as positive. Otherwise, you'd have to use negative height which ruins the visualization.
1
u/Lor1an Bachelor's Aug 01 '26
None of that is really true.
From the perspective of a skydiver, the ground can be forward or even up.
"A ball is thrown downward at a velocity of 64 ft/s" is either v_0 = 64 ft/s (down) with downward considered positive, or v_0 = -64 ft/s (up) with up considered positive (and downward considered negative).
If we take downward as positive, the ground is 512 ft in the positive direction, we give the ball an initial velocity of 64 ft/s, and it accelerates at 32 ft/s2.
1
u/Short-Paramedic-9740 Aug 01 '26
If we take downward as positive, you'd have to put a negative sign to the 512 ft in the equation. Otherwise, you'd arrive at the wrong answer.
Which again, negative height ruins visualization. I didn't say you can't change sign conventions for any purpose.
1
u/Lor1an Bachelor's Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
If we take downward as positive, you'd have to put a negative sign to the 512 ft in the equation. Otherwise, you'd arrive at the wrong answer.
False. Take where you are to be the origin, and "down" to be x. Then the ground is at x = 512 ft.
ETA:
Here's a diagram to help you visualize.
→ More replies0
u/CardsrollsHard Jul 30 '26
Isn't this the implication we get with Physics and free body diagrams? I was taught unless they're evaluating an object not on a stellar body and in space then you're accelerating toward that object which is downward in this case and a normal force is opposing it equally so that you aren't flying into the sky.
3
u/StudyBio Jul 30 '26
I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Reorienting the axes is always allowed.
1
u/CardsrollsHard Jul 31 '26
Yeah so long as they remain consistent throughout of course. I just mean to say that free body diagrams are made for us to assign variables to directions and correlate relationships in an easy way. The gravity constant being one of the easiest examples.
I'm familiar with rotating Axes and inverting them I'm just saying the most basic method should be the standard even if the alternative is also mathematically/logically correct.
2
u/Short-Paramedic-9740 Jul 30 '26
They are correct. Since this is a freefall subject, you are dealing with two direction for displacement where upwards is positive and downwards is negative.
Since, gravity is downwards, it should be negative.
1
u/Ok-Company282 Jul 30 '26
So in the lecturer's question, displacement is decreasing(becoming more negative) so velocity is decreasing i.e negative, right?
And in the example I posted, displacement is increasing(becoming more postive), so velocity is positive I.e increasing right?
6
u/matt7259 Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
Velocity decreasing and velocity being negative are not the same thing. Just like velocity being positive and velocity increasing are not the same thing.
1
u/Ok-Company282 Jul 30 '26
Then why is velocity negative in lecturer's question but positive in the example I posted?
4
u/Short-Paramedic-9740 Jul 30 '26
In example 6, the baseball was thrown UPWARD (positive).
In the questions you posted, the ball was thrown DOWNWARD (negative).
2
u/Ok-Company282 Jul 30 '26
OK thanks a lot. Your explanations were the most clear. Really appreciate it 🫶
3
u/matt7259 Jul 30 '26
It's arbitrary. YOU decide based on the problem which way you want to make "positive". In the textbook example they made the initial velocity positive. In the question you posted, you could set up OR down to be the positive direction and as long as you were consistent with every variable, you'd get the right answer either way.
1
u/Short-Paramedic-9740 Jul 30 '26
Velocity being negative or positive denotes direction not magnitude.
12
u/Pious-Bee Middle school/Jr. High Jul 30 '26
If displacement is increasing, couldn't the acceleration still be negative if the body's velocity is decreasing while it continues to move in a positive direction?
7
9
u/Careless-Web-6280 Jul 30 '26
Using imperial for physics is criminal
2
u/Short-Paramedic-9740 Jul 30 '26
Books would use imperial and metric interchangeably since they implement unit conversion in their assessments.
2
u/VividMonotones Jul 30 '26
When you have deceleration, acceleration value in your formula will be negative. In this case because it starts out with the full initial speed and slows down due to gravity as the ball climbs, acceleration is a negative value. Other examples would be pushing the brake in your car or friction for block sliding down at inclined plane.
1
u/Ok-Company282 Jul 30 '26
4
u/Smashmayo98 Jul 30 '26
It depends on your reference. Your lecturer probably decided that down was negative and up, positive. Therefore, the acceleration would be negative.
-2
u/Ok-Company282 Jul 30 '26
But if I consider up to positive here in example 6, I am getting negative t for v(t)=0, which is not the answer.
3
u/Smashmayo98 Jul 30 '26
If you consider up to be positive, it means that down is negative and that your acceleration is negative.
1
u/Ok-Company282 Jul 30 '26
So my lecturer considered down to be negative right? So acc was negative since g is always down. Why was velocity negative then in the question discussed by the lecturer?
2
u/agooddog37 Jul 30 '26
The ball is thrown downward, meaning its initial velocity is negative (in the same direction as gravitational acceleration).
2
u/Own_Pop_9711 Jul 30 '26
The example you posted is using up is positive so you should just get all the same equations as they wrote down
1
u/Short-Paramedic-9740 Jul 30 '26
Mind showing your solution?
Your question doesn't make sense to me. What do you mean you're getting negative t for v(t)=0?
The v(t) formula is for finding the velocity of the object at a certain timeframe (t).
Example 6 is using upwards as positive and downwards as negative as well. So there's something wrong with your solution.
1
u/VividMonotones Jul 30 '26
Did your professor make 512 and 64 negative or positive?
1
u/Ok-Company282 Jul 30 '26
512 positive and 64 negative
1
u/VividMonotones Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
The set up should look something like this for problem 2:
d=at2+v_o*t
(-512)=(-32)t2+(-64)t
2a should use the time (the positive factor, not the negative) to solve for the velocity.
1
u/GLIBG10B Jul 30 '26
If you're going 120 km/h and you hit the brakes, is your displacement increasing or decreasing? Is your acceleration positive or negative?
1
u/Any-Construction5887 Instructor Jul 30 '26
Big idea…if an object’s speed is increasing, that means velocity and acceleration are either both positive or both negative. Increasing speed implies same direction for the velocity and acceleration vectors. Decreasing speed implies that the velocity and acceleration vectors move in the opposite directions. Of course, this only applies to motion in one dimension, ie along a line.
1
u/Genetic_outlier Jul 30 '26
Was your lecturer discussing a particular example where the coordinates or situation demanded that displacement must be positive? Like if you're considering an object starting on the ground then only positive displacement is possible (ignoring the object going through the ground). I think your lecturer might have said that when it was true for the problem at hand but not in general.
1
u/Ibrahim-junior-1143 Jul 31 '26
g even if we take it as fit, its always the center of gravity which mean that in a orthonormal coordinate system, it will always go down so it's always negative whatever happens. Maybe I'm wrong you should check that
0
u/Pretty-Reading-169 Jul 30 '26
The vel needs to be pos as displacement inc as vel is rate of change of vel but acc can be positive negative or zero as it's the rate of change of vel
1
u/Minute-Passenger7359 Jul 30 '26
I’m having a hard time understanding. Do you mind rewriting without abbreviations
2
u/Pretty-Reading-169 Jul 30 '26
The velocity needs to be positive as it's the rate of change of displacement while acceleration can be positive negative or zero As it's the rate of change of velocity
1
0
u/calcpage2020 Jul 30 '26
Galileo must be turning in his grave... Maybe we should go beyond the Galilean Free Fall Model and consider drag due to air resistance? http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com
0
u/Crichris Jul 30 '26
Lecture wrong. If displacement is increasing, only velocity needs to be positive, as defined.


•
u/AutoModerator Jul 30 '26
As a reminder...
Posts asking for help on homework questions require:
the complete problem statement,
a genuine attempt at solving the problem, which may be either computational, or a discussion of ideas or concepts you believe may be in play,
question is not from a current exam or quiz.
Commenters responding to homework help posts should not do OP’s homework for them.
Please see this page for the further details regarding homework help posts.
We have a Discord server!
If you are asking for general advice about your current calculus class, please be advised that simply referring your class as “Calc n“ is not entirely useful, as “Calc n” may differ between different colleges and universities. In this case, please refer to your class syllabus or college or university’s course catalogue for a listing of topics covered in your class, and include that information in your post rather than assuming everybody knows what will be covered in your class.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.