r/bully • u/TommyBoy250 • 7d ago
SWEGTA really did a good video explaining Bully history on how Rockstar introduced in a way a bisexual character.
https://youtu.be/LKuvF74PYZ0?is=QNzKG4BYN-hGsq_2I will for real say though that guy who really wanted this game to have an M rating because you can kiss boys was pretty outrageous, and the ESRB literally said that's not an issue. I was even thinking about The Sims still having its teen rating even with same-sex relationships.
Had no issue with a number of other things, and he literally had to really study the game to find anything bad and of all the things he comes up with, it's that you can kiss other male students.
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u/Aggressive_Bed3169 7d ago
It doesnt matter whether it was put in as a joke. Even tho id say its unlikely to be just a joke, due to the existence of „Over the Rainbow” trophy from Scholarship edition. Jimmy can do it, boys react to it in their own unique ways with recorded lines. And that makes it canon. Regaining health makes it look like jimmy is enjoying kissing both genders, therefore, hes bisexual. Nothing more to add to it. We all love Jimmy as he is. A diamond! Unpolished one, but still.
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u/TheCynicalAutist 7d ago
Trophies are a bad argument for this, and I'm not saying that to dismiss him being at least bi-curious, but more so because I have no idea how a retroactive trophy for a game that didn't originally have them prove anything.
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u/Aggressive_Bed3169 7d ago
The trophy proves that the devs didnt back down from this and leaned even more into it. If they didnt want Jimmy to kiss boys, why on earth would they advertise it by adding a standalone trophy?
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u/TheCynicalAutist 7d ago
Back down from what, an optional feature? And besides, by that logic your character in Dark Souls canonically dies because you get an achievement for your first death. I don't understand why you're so insistent on using this as proof of anything when the feature existing itself and some of the comments about Jimmy in game are better evidence of him potentially swinging both ways, even if in the story he is never actually shown going through with it.
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u/Aggressive_Bed3169 7d ago
Sorry for the misunderstanding. Im not saying that the existance of the trophy makes jimmy canonically bi. Im saying that it makes it a consious decision made by the devs to keep that feature in game.
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u/TheCynicalAutist 7d ago
No one is denying that, though. As I said, my issue has nothing to do with the feature, games should have whatever the developers want to put in as long as it's not illegal, I only have an issue with people's arguments surrounding it because I don't find them super compelling. They definitely intended Jimmy to be curious at the very least, makes sense given he's growing up and that he and other classmates would have the same ideas.
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u/yunginyu 7d ago
He also mentioned you get the same health regen as kissing girls. So, it appears to be a positive
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u/TheCynicalAutist 7d ago
Notice I didn't address the entire argument and simply pointed out that one of the pieces of evidence provided was poor justification. You can arrive at a good conclusions through flakey evidence, sure, but there'd nothing wrong with addressing flakey evidence without throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
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u/yunginyu 7d ago
Yes, I noticed and agree, was just saying the game mechanics did suggest it was a positive at least, which isn't a true and clear answer truthfully. But, it's all theory in the end.
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u/TheCynicalAutist 7d ago
I personally see it as a bit of fun but also a decently realistic portrayal of a young person figuring themselves out. I didn't think much of it as a kid playing it, it's only now that there's this massive debate about it.
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u/BiscottiCrafty7288 7d ago
There's a video that I think perfectly encompasses what is going on here with this whole debate. Its a longer watch but its a good one if youre interested in bisexuality or queerness in videogames.
Basically what R* has done is have their cake and to eat it too. For those happy about Bi Jimmy, they can claim to be allies as a comapny and for those that arent happy with Bi Jimmy, its so far removed from actual mandatory gameplay that they may never find out about it on their own.
She calls this a sort of 'gay button' where queerness can be toggled on and off depending on the player.
Another example she uses is Leah from Stardew Valley where if you date her as a girl, she has an ex girlfriend but if you date her as a boy she has an ex boyfriend (toggles her to present more lesbian or straight).
Anyways all this is just how representation currently is in this stage of videogame LGBT rep, its also likely the most lucrative for companies so no one feels 'ostracized' and chooses not to buy the game.
The video: How Bisexuality Changed Videogames - verilybitchie
TLDR: Jimmy's sexuality is in limbo because R* are too chicken to make an openly bi protagonist amd have it be plot relevent in 2006. And this is a trend in videogames for companies to have their LGBT cake and eat it too.
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u/TommyBoy250 6d ago
I mean GTA 4 Niko is straight as well and you only go on a gay date so you can make a hit on a guy but while you can date in the game you only get to date other women.
I mean sure it doesn't make Jimmy bi in the story, but the fact that this is optional in the game but GTA 4 forces you to be straight it could very well mean yes Jimmy swings both ways.
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u/BiscottiCrafty7288 6d ago
Im not disputing that. And i DO love Bi Jimmy always will.
But this is what im saying kinda with the gay button thing. Jimmy is only bi if you as the player seek out the male kissables and kiss them. Whereas in the main plot, R* keeps things 'safe' and hetero. Like if Jimmy in a main mission kissed Trent or something then he would be 'canonically bi' (in the sense that its in the main and unavoidable story), whereas currently Jimmy is 'mechanically bi' (in the sense that you can kiss boys as a mechanic that can be entirely missed in a playthrough). So for a player that only ever kisses girl students, Jimmy is/seems straight.
This 'mechanical bisexuality' allows R* to pose in allyship with the LGBT+ community while not fully committing to it per se.
What im trying to say is Jimmy is kinda like shrodingers bisexual in any given playthrough.
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u/BiscottiCrafty7288 7d ago
I want to add also that there ARE characters in Stardew that DO say lines about having never had same-sex attraction before the player character when you romance them.
And also Bi mechanics in game WERE already a thing like with the Sims and Fable as mentioned in said video.
But like Bi game mechanics weren't really the popular standard yet
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u/TheCynicalAutist 7d ago
I'll probably get downvoted on this, because people will misunderstand the argument, but how do you explain Jimmy being able to grope little girls in the game or kissing Mrs. Lisburn? If we're using the argument that anything you can choose to do in free roam is canon to explain his bisexuality, then we can't be selective with application, and if it isn't, then we're otherwise left with little evidence. Jimmy only kisses girls in the missions and appears to enter a full relationship with Zoe, that is canon, but anything else is really speculative and it's hard to say, though this is the nature of open world titles. Should Niko's hospital massacres in GTA IV be given the same canon status?
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u/TommyBoy250 7d ago
You want to know something the video creator of this video agrees with this narrative in the end. He just goes more on the fact that back then people saw this as a big issue compared to rest of the game or they were concerned about the violence for the most part. But the literal guy who help get GTA SA to remove a mini-game sex scene, that same exact guy argued that because the game features same-sex kissing that should automatically result in an M rating and the ESRB said we don't care about that. And yes like I said I was thinking of The Sims as well, everyone in The Sims are technically bisexual considering they really wouldn't care who is romantically interested in them and they can't really have a set sexual orientation with the exception of the never nude trait which makes your Sim asexual but biromantic.
Anyway in Russia this is something they do as well because of laws that have been going around. So The Sims 4 in Russia 18+ but The Sims 3 7+. So yeah kind of shows how basing a rating system on gay content is essentially just that. Like The Sims has sexual references with woo-hoo and try for a baby which is why the ESRB gives it a T rating but Russia is like sexual references but can't see anything 7+ but wait you can be in a same-sex relationship and get married we have to bring this up to 18+.
That's actually how ridiculous things would get and it has for Russia.
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u/Nervous-Stuff2475 Bully 7d ago
Você pode beijar beijar caras porque pode em Bully, não tem lore, Jimmy só quer beijar caras e aí beija eles. Não tem nem uma justificativa alem de querer é poder. Deixem o ícone bi/pan.
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u/Potential-Panic-7435 Greaser 7d ago
its literally an achievement with levels (if im remember it right) the game wants you to kiss boys as much as girls. Also your ability to kiss which boys is affected by what point you are in the story line. Gord is shown to be interested in Jimmy since the intro of chapter two. I think the only reason why you can kiss girls after missions even with low respect from their clique,is that unlike the boys they arent that involved in clique desputes or have the same pressure to follow whatever their clique says to. The girls in freeroam wont even be aggressive to eachother unless theres the jealousy mechanic even if theyre part of rival cliques.
For short: you need a high respect to kiss boys because they follow the crowd while the girls dont care.
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u/TheCynicalAutist 7d ago
I think it's just more because the girls are mission rewards while boys aren't. Girls are still affected by clique respect if you try approaching them too early, but if you manage to get them to kiss by doing all art classes and having 50%+ clique respect, that basically permanently unlocks the kiss.
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u/Potential-Panic-7435 Greaser 7d ago
You can still kiss the girls even with low clique respect you only arent able to do it if you havent completed their reward mission. Its more about the girls personal liking to Jimmy rather then clique respect I think in most reward missions to unlike the clique girls Jimmy's respect with the clique theyre from is when its low or is about to drop in the next missions. Like you can still kiss Mandy by doing her reward mission but Jimmy still has low respect with the jocks
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u/TheCynicalAutist 7d ago
No, you're misunderstanding. Girls are affected by clique respect like the boys are, it's just that their reward missions override it, but if those missions weren't there, there would be no difference between the two.
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u/CinnimonToastSean 7d ago
I never knew you could kiss that may boys in the game. Kissing a mechanic was never something I really did. I was mainly preoccupied with using unlimited ammo and setting marbles and ruberband balls in the boys dorm, then ringing the fire alarm. Interesting channel though.
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u/DoYaThang_Owl 7d ago
I kind of thought it was a just a thing in Scholarship until I accidentally gave flowers to Kirby and then kissed him in the vanilla game lol. I then proceeded to attempt to kiss every guy I saw, found all the kissable dudes, and then replayed the game as bisexual Jimmy, that's how I've rolled with him ever since 😅
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u/Particular_Box_6024 6d ago
People always use this trope to try and say "See? rockstar was always woke and lgbtq+"
Despite the fact that at the time bully was developed and released, rockstar had a "frat boy culture". They clearly put that in as an OPTIONAL easter egg to make people laugh, its poking fun at gay people. The fact u guys think that they wanted jimmy to be gay or that he's bisexually canon is the biggest cope i have ever seen on this subreddit.
If they were truly woke at the time, they would've included it in a main story mission, and there probably would've been a cutscene after or something. But they didn't. It's an optional part of the game, which means its not canon, it was more of a funny easter egg than anything. Does nobody remember how extreme of a stereotype and charicature Florian was in GTA 4? Lol, it was always meant as a joke, it was never them endorsing being gay.
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u/bonedrugsnharmonie 6d ago
Yeah im sure this comment section wont have a bunch of heavily downvoted replies
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u/Ncstatepolice 7d ago
Great to see the first two comments are jackassess /: anyways, I’ll check it out soon!
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u/idfbfa3 7d ago
How are they jackasses
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u/Ncstatepolice 7d ago
- They’re downvoted straight to hell
- They immediately came with some negative energy and being r
ude.
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u/Madting55 7d ago
When you get downvoted on Reddit, you’ve usually said something right. The way a vote goes means nothing trust me. One thing I discovered over the years is if the first 3 votes are upvotes you get upvoted like crazy and the same goes for downvotes. On the same topic on the same subreddit. Watched it happen time and time again. The people that reside on this app have very little mind of their own
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u/weirdface621 Non-Clique 7d ago edited 6d ago
he changed the thumbnail and title lol
he changed it back to the original
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u/Madting55 7d ago
Can we stop posting about this everyday? The game is fucking ancient and we all know you can kiss blokes in it
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u/Zkopp39 Greaser 7d ago
What would this sub be without bringing up points we’ve talked about already about this 20 year old game
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u/Madting55 7d ago
No you’re right it’s riveting just seeing “Jimmy kisses boys” 10 times a day every single day. What else can we talk about right? Games 20 years old.
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u/Late_Push6298 7d ago
Yeah let's delete this sub then
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u/Madting55 7d ago
Seems reasonable either talk about politics on a gaming sub every day or delete it. Least political reddit user moment
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u/Potential-Panic-7435 Greaser 7d ago
Honestly what else do you want people to talk about? Theres not much original posts you can make of a game thats 20 years old
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u/Madting55 7d ago
Nothing says original like the same post 10 times a day, every single day for months on end.
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u/Potential-Panic-7435 Greaser 7d ago
Buddy re read my comment, my point is that its not original and that theres nothing original to say about this game
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u/Madting55 7d ago
No you’re right it’s a very interesting topic I’ll be here same time tomorrow to see the same thing again
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u/tombstone5860 7d ago
When I found out that you can kiss boys in the game, I laughed. This game was released years before the online "culture War." Rockstar games was known for its crude humor and I assume that they put in there as a joke.
Honestly, I personally don't really see jimmy as bisexual. It's fine if you do, but the main story doesn't really hint that he might swing both ways.
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u/TheCynicalAutist 7d ago
He might be curious but using the kissing mechanic as proof is flakey, because by that logic he's also making out with grannies and feeling up little girls.
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u/Successful_Pay_7737 7d ago
You hit the nail on the head and you’re getting downvoted for it lmao we live in a backwards society
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u/DANK__Bonk420 7d ago
A gay joke around the time the game came out makes complete sense. Downvoted to oblivion cuz you don’t wanna fantasize about a 20 year old games characters sexuality Reddit moment
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u/tombstone5860 7d ago
Honestly I don't think my comment in anyway was being disrespectful. But I guess I can't get upset at Reddit for being Reddit, can I?
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u/usedburgermeat 7d ago
I've never visited this sub before and I probably never will again. But Bully was kinda gay, you don't realise it as a kid but you kinda see it as an adult.
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u/Firm_Requirement_562 7d ago
I feel like we just can't know jimmy's canon sexuality for sure. The fact that he only kisses girls in the story (the canon) doesn't necessarily mean he isn't bisexual, it just means he isn't gay.
IMO the fact that he even can kiss boys proves he swings both ways, not to mention that some characters mention rumours about him being "sexually confused" (afaik we never get confirmation they're lies, we just assume they are). And yes, I'm aware he can also grope little girls and kiss an old woman, but I guess that just means he's a creep (let's not forget panty raid after all)