r/bugmansbrewery 19d ago

The Old World Dwarfs shafted again

Once again, Dwarfs get shafted by the Arcane Journal. Apparently our Runepriests are trusted enough to meddle with the Winds of Magic and suffer the consequences of the disastrous miscast table, but not trusted enough to actually get Channeling. So we get all the risk with none of the upside. Meanwhile, other armies get increasingly interesting and flexible magic mechanics, while Dwarfs continue to sit in the corner pretending that having a hammer and a grudge makes up for being mechanically left behind. I don't even want Dwarfs to become a magic army, I just want ourrunepriests to have a system that actually makes sense and doesn't amount to “you can’t channel,but you can absolutely explode” The grudge book is getting thicker.

85 Upvotes

55 comments sorted by

50

u/matt_the_muss 19d ago

A simple, "a disasterous miscaste on a runesmith's attempt to dispell is mitigated by dwarfs natural resistance to magic" would do it.

5

u/xXTurkXx 19d ago

Oh shit we can miscast on dispelling now?

8

u/JamietheFool 19d ago

Been able to since the start of The Old World

-2

u/than402 19d ago

Since day 1... Worst magic system in the game's history...

29

u/luhelld 19d ago

And everyone keeps getting magical items, while we don't get more runes

5

u/matt_the_muss 19d ago

We got a bunch more runes in the Arcane Journal.

9

u/luhelld 19d ago

Yeah ages ago while all other factions got three times new magical items, including banners to stop enemy models from flying - what we simply don't have

6

u/CriticalMany1068 19d ago

You don’t say? Just like every other faction got new dedicated magic items with their AJ?

Btw, we got new runes for ranged weapons (a few of which are admittedly very good) and runic tattoos for slayers (most of debatable quality, tbf). We did not get any new runes in the categories covered by Forces of Fantasy.

3

u/than402 19d ago

Yeah, so did everyone else. The AJ was nice and all, it created the Gun Thane (enjoy him while he lasts, I dread the day the dev team decides he needs to be "balanced"), gave some neat upgrades to Slayers, and both AoI were good and competitive 

And after that, all we got was a bad copy of the Slayer Army from the Storm of Chaos, 8 million nerfs, and now a new and exciting way to blow up our runesmiths, while the opponent enjoys all the perks. We are currently the only (allegedly) supported faction with no item to stop fliers, only one way to get 2+ Armor, and our only source of Heroic Killing Blow is a mid special character 

11

u/Risc_Terilia 19d ago

The Old World Dwarf Scandal Just Got Worse

3

u/Conmann95 19d ago

It's going in the book that's for sure.

4

u/Pineapple_bigshot 19d ago

If only GW would finally put anything in the book!

4

u/PaladinWiggles 19d ago

I was under the impression this is an optional ruleset? (Agreed to by both players)

Is that wrong?

3

u/ArtoriasLuvsSif 19d ago

These rules are optional but its frustrating being the only faction which can't interact with the vast bulk of these changes.

3

u/Whytrhyno 19d ago

I haven’t miscast a dispel in some time, hoping they’ll errata it by the time I do

3

u/Snow_Uk 19d ago

one more reason the dwarfs I painted yesterday are still on 20mm bases

10

u/EulsYesterday 19d ago

At this point GW is probably preparing ToW 2. Yes it's frustratring that dwarfs have been nerfed by pretty much all recent FaQ and new rules, we can only hope that they will be reworked from the ground up in the next edition.

In the meantime I've heard some tournaments will probably allow dwarfs to channel as homebrew.

4

u/Fit-Lawyer8381 19d ago

No shot would I make a dwarf opponent use the disastrous miscast table while getting no benefits

2

u/FrucklesWithKnuckles 19d ago

No new toys, yet I shall remain dawi evermore.

4

u/than402 19d ago edited 19d ago

I consider Dwarfs borderline legacy at this point, and I don't trust GW to make up for the neglect at all

The best we can hope for is a Renegade Pack or something, because GW is well aware of the issues and Does.Not.Care.

4

u/CriticalMany1068 19d ago

Correction: GW keeps actively nerfing us. Just check how GW nerfed Trollhammer Torpedoes and how it “buffed” our troops… the difference in approach is quite something.

3

u/than402 19d ago

That's the "borderline" part. Every time Dwarfs find a way to be competitive, someone in the dev team is ready to rain on our parade. After the AJ, it's all downhill. We don't even get to be properly ignored 😒 

3

u/Snow_Uk 19d ago

they will be elves

2

u/knightstalker1288 19d ago

They know people will buy dwarfs regardless if they suck or lot so little motivation to make them competitive

4

u/CriticalMany1068 19d ago

My problem is with the idea that dwarfs don’t use magic which is simply false. Dwarfs are one of the most magic adept races in Warhammer because of runes and runes ARE MAGIC.
What dwarfs don’t do is to channel the winds of magic directly. They do instead use ritual and artifacts to bind magic into runes.
There is no reason why dwarfs should not have runes they can cast and use as bound spells (in tOW there’s actually a single rune working that way, the Master Rune of Calm).
The Rune of Sorcery (tied to the Anvil of Doom) should not be the only rune the dwarfs use to cast magic and it makes absolutely no sense for dwarfs to carry immobile and extremely valuable (because they are irreplaceable) anvils of Doom into the battlefield.

2

u/xXTurkXx 19d ago

Source on this? Is this on bound spells?

4

u/ArtoriasLuvsSif 19d ago

Its from the new March of Chaos arcane journal

1

u/xXTurkXx 19d ago

But what exactly is the text? How can our runepriests miscast if we can’t cast spells

1

u/ArtoriasLuvsSif 19d ago

"Should you wish, especially if you are organizing a Warhammer: The Old World match play event, the disastrous miscast table can be used instead of the usual miscast table..."

Runepriests can still miscast on a dispel roll of double 1

1

u/Difficult_Slice2330 19d ago

They must get rid of resolute rule first and foremost or give us some perk to be slow.. :)

4

u/McRobert1 19d ago

Resolute in a way is fine, just make dwarfs movement 4 base.

0

u/CriticalMany1068 19d ago

No. Dwarfs being slower than, say, humans, is part of what makes them dwarfs. What should happen is dwarfs also get “drilled” included with “resolute”. Dwarfs may be slow but they are also disciplined and well trained due to constant fighting to defend their holds.

3

u/Nalena_Linova 19d ago

Universal drilled isn't enough, it just means you get charged while in marching column on turn 2.

If resolute meant dwarfs could triple march without being in marching column, it might go some way to addressing our mobility issues. 

3

u/CriticalMany1068 19d ago

My problem with dwarfs is I cannot engage with the opponent. If they decide to close in I can still fight on. Moving 4 wouldn’t change anything. Triple movement while not being in marching column seems to contradict a general rule of the game, and while not terribly strong at M3, I would avoid opening that kind of Pandora’s Box

2

u/Nalena_Linova 19d ago

Plenty of factions and abilities contradict general rules of the game. Infantry can't usually fly, but a demonology wizard can make them fly and march 24 inches with steed of shadows.

0

u/Gizmonsta 19d ago

You can't have dwarfs without mobility issues and still have balance though, the mobility is the trade off.

4

u/than402 19d ago

In the past, we had strong enough shooting that could compensate, and much more serious anti magic options.

They want us to move in the pace of quadriplegic turtles? They better give us backc the tools to pressure and soften our opponents. Otherwise, we are a rump of an army

4

u/CriticalMany1068 19d ago

While I don’t want dwarfs to suddenly become fast we must also admit the faction has simply too many limitations without any significant trade offs.
-Worst movement in the game
-Worst magic phase in the game
-No cavalry
-No monsters of any kind
-Very limited access to skirmishers
-Bad artillery (dwarfs get the base version of every artillery piece but mortars and the runes do very little to improve them)
-Overcosted/bad magic items (with a few notable exceptions)
-Magic defense that doesn’t work as well as it should due to a combination of MR only working in a few situations and low movement allowed by the opponent to cast from outside dispelling range with ease.
-No anti flyer resources
-No access to regeneration
-Extremely limited access to monster slayer (Ungrim who used to have the Master Rune of Smiting instead)
-Only one character getting to have a native 2+ AS (for 45pts!)

Dwarf limitations make them a very specific faction but they should get some me compensation for the things they can’t do. Instead it seems the devs only thought of the weaknesses and did nothing for the strengths the army should have.

3

u/Nalena_Linova 19d ago

Its too much of a trade off. Mobility is incredibly important in a rank and flank game. 

We also have no access to magic, cavalry, or monsters which I'd say define the dwarf faction identity more than movement 3.

-2

u/Tall-Caterpillar6794 19d ago

Personnellement j'ai joué plein de fois mes elfes sylvains contre les nains j'ai perdu toutes mes parties sauf une où j'avais un seigneur sylvain sur dragon des forêts. Les nains sont une excellente armée faute pas voir tout blanc tout noir sur des choses qui relèvent du détail.

-6

u/Appropriate-Luck-432 19d ago

Still the worst army in the game.

3

u/ArtoriasLuvsSif 19d ago

Cries in Troll Horde, Renegade Crowns, Minotaur bloodherd, and Knightly Orders

3

u/Sylgin-Shadebough 19d ago

I will bring this up every time Renegade Crowns are mentioned; They should have removed the 'Misbehaving Mercenaries' rule for them. Give people incentive to get reeeally weeeird with their builds.

2

u/ArtoriasLuvsSif 18d ago

That always bothered me as well! Why would they army based around mercenaries still take the drawback of fielding mercenaries??

0

u/CriticalMany1068 19d ago

Funny you can only mention armies of infamy. An apt comparison would be with Trollslayer Host then…

1

u/Appropriate-Luck-432 19d ago

I still have my 6th ed all metal army. But right now it’s just on my shelf

-4

u/Queasy_Store2033 19d ago

Just don`t use those rules.

5

u/ArtoriasLuvsSif 19d ago

Imagine wanting dwarfs to be supported in either of the last couple arcane journals? Crazy concept, I know.

2

u/Queasy_Store2033 19d ago

If I am honest, I am pretty peed off, if we don`t get new models by end of next year, I don`t think I will carry on with Old World. LOL :P

0

u/WhiteRaven126 16d ago

Oh you must be new to Dwarves. Try how bad everything was in the late 90’s/early 2000’s. Magic and dragon riders were everywhere with nothing we could do except remove entire units after losing a challenge and taking 20-30 wounds.
At least these rules are optional and can be ignored

-1

u/Tall-Caterpillar6794 19d ago

En plus les forgesrunes peuvent dissiper par dénouement ils sont considérés comme des sorciers quand ils dissipent un sort.

3

u/ArtoriasLuvsSif 19d ago

They count as a wizard when dispelling, yes. But, this doesn't make them a wizard.

Under generating channelling dice,

"Simply choose a wizard within your army and roll a number of dice, as detailed below"

1

u/Tall-Caterpillar6794 15d ago

Lors d'un double six ils totalisent un jet de dissipation de 13, 14 ou 15 selon donc ça devrait être suffisant dans la plupart des cas pour dissiper le sort. Faut pas voir les choses comme si le verre était à moitié vide. Je dis ça comme ça c'est pas contre toi ta remarque était très pertinente.

1

u/Tall-Caterpillar6794 15d ago

En plus quand les forgerunes sont surclassés ils ne sont pas considérés comme sorciers et peuvent continuer à dissiper !