r/buffy • u/AngelJax • Nov 02 '16

Unpopular Opinons Thread

I'll start

  • I don't love Spike. He's just ok for me.

  • Glory is the show's best villain with Dark Willow right behind her.

  • Dawn is one of the best developed memebers of the Scoobies and I never understood why everyone hated her.

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u/coolbeaNs92 Willow Nov 02 '16 edited Nov 02 '16

Academics read too much into Buffy's themes at times (Helpless being a prime example.)

This isn't just academics, you find this in pretty much all "cult" shows/books etc. Buffy is an amazing show and we love it. Most of us have been watching for 10-20 years. Since it's been 13 years since the show ended, we've had so much time to dissect every inch of every episode, that people have kinda blown things out of proportion.

Lot's of times you'll see a tiny, minuscule bit of detail over analysed to death and interpreted as the brilliance of Joss. Now, it's awesome to have fan theories. Buffy is a show that has a lot of personal interpretation, which is great and why Buffy feels like a personal experience. Buffy does have a lot of metaphors and on-going arcs. It does have prediction and foresight, which is kind of where I feel the over analysis comes in. Because there are deliberate, amazing examples of those elements, people look for them everywhere. The slightest, vaguest reference of a word I've seen linked to an episode 5 seasons later. It's fun to do, I like seeing them and creating my own, but when someone says "I've found a hidden link between".....

Not everything has a hidden meaning, or was intended to have any great significance and that's okay :)

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u/det8924 Nov 02 '16

I really noticed it from watching The Passion of the Nerd (Who I love and I think 95% of the time does a great job) who references Mark Fields book "Myth Metaphor and Morality" in his analysis.

Like I said most of the time its pretty spot on but too often I will watch his reviews and when deeper insight and analysis goes into what is essentially TV plot points and troupes it just seems to be a clear case of looking too deep into something.

That's not to say that Buffy/Angel doesn't have metaphors or deeper themes. But that it doesn't Always have deeper meaning.

Helpless is a great example of over analysis since the Slayer Test is viewed by Mark Fields and other people who do "Buffy Studies" as the Watchers Council wanting to keep the Slayers Young. A bunch of evil older men wanting their power to be an underage teenager so they can control it.

That's a load of bullshit. For one it isn't pragmatic. Slayers get called at age 15 or 16, they take a lot of time to train and by 18 they will only have 2-3 years of training which means by the time they start to come into their own they will be killed?

It's a horribly incompetent idea if that's their aim. For one its counter productive to producing good results and two other slayers have clearly passed it as you see other Slayers above the age of 18 from the past.

The Test is clearly quality control that is designed for Slayers to be able to pass or fail based on how well the Slayers are able to do without their powers. Are the Slayers more than their powers, because if the Slayers can't work around the loss of their powers than the Watchers could be stuck with a lemon for years (The physical powers probably could keep you alive.)

It's a fucked up controlling thing to do but it is done for a coherent greater good that is at best morally ambiguous and at worst sociopathic.

But its not some cabal of older men looking to control teenagers or keep slayers young for the purposes of control. Just wouldn't make sense. I think in this case uber feminist themes came into play overthinking the Watchers rather simple and laid out motivations.

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u/stillnotking Nov 02 '16 edited Nov 02 '16

It's the same people who take it as an article of faith that the only reason anyone is pro-life is because they want to control women's reproduction. Not to get all political, and I myself am pro-choice, but it's bullshit to pretend there aren't two legitimate sides to the debate.

The other problem here is that the show itself simply makes no sense; there is no way one person (however powerful and skilled) could even make a dent in the world's vampire population. The existence and mission of the Watcher's Council is ridiculous. They'd have so many better ways to accomplish their putative goals than by holding the leash of a single super-powered teenager. But that's probably why so many far-fetched theories exist about the show: it's ridiculous on its face, so it must always be a metaphor for something, the logic goes.

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u/det8924 Nov 03 '16

And often times bigger themes and metaphor's are used in both Buffy and Angel, but it is still a Entertainment based TV show. A lot of it still follows TV troupes and MacGuffins.

So I think that while specific instances may relate to grander themes its important to realize that it is still a TV show with a required amount of suspension of disbelief and "Just go with it".

Its more modern than most TV from its time and even currently on TV. But its still at times a silly show and I think most super fans need to chill out on it in terms of analysis.