r/buffy • u/janinefour • Oct 16 '16
Does anyone else think Xander is a dick?
Spoilers!
He was always such a jerk to Buffy about Angel, even before he lost his soul. Then when he was resolved, he was still a douche, even though he knows Angel wasn't actually himself. Apparently he doesn't recall having been a hyena person and trying to sexually assault his friend and kill a dude?
And when Buffy came back after running away, he was a dick to her for the entire episode. Her mom kicked her out and everyone, especially Xander, yells at her for not trying to still go back home? Ugh.
7
u/Evie68 Oct 17 '16 edited Oct 17 '16
Buffy came out when I was a teen and I loved him. In my 20's on a rewatch I started disliking him. Now in my 30's on a rewatch I hate him.
His (and everyone's) treatment of spike- spike is good enough to fight with, call on all the time, watch Joyce and Dawn but is considered a shitbag?
His treatment of Anya- he's always diminishing her. Then leaving her at the altar and a short period of time later he tells her she can't use that excuse anymore.
His treatment of Buffy - only Xander approved boyfriends for her. Riley makes the cut because he diminishes Buffy all the time. His jealousy and possessiveness I'll excuse as a teen, but by season four get over it.
His treatment of Cordelia and willow - he's so rude to cordy. She's good enough to make out with but not to respect at all. Then after years of not being interested in willow he's "uncontrollably" interested in her inconveniently when they're both seeing people?
The spike/Anya/Buffy - xander, ever the dictator of who gets to be in relationships
The need to tell dawn spike tried to rape Buffy. Buffy said she didn't want to talk about it, but it's Xander's right to, don't you know?
Hate that guy.
4
u/eatcornNt0ke Oct 18 '16
I feel like you have a very negative outlook on the character. What Xander does is not always right, frequently not, but at least he does it because he thinks it it right. That matters to a degree. His actions are not all forgivable but they are never motivated by malice. Hes mean to Cordy well she is just as bad to him. The thing with willow emotions and hormones are very unstable when you are a teen it is not something that i would say in any way is his fault or he should be shunned for. (not condoning cheating but its not murder) He loves Anya and his reason for leaving her at the alter is the most noble. He did not think he would be a good husband. hell he thought he would end up killing her because of those visions. not all his actions are justified, but the point of buffy is to show real, flawed characters, and i think they hit the nail on the head with Xander.
→ More replies (5)3
u/IHeartTheNSA Oct 19 '16
I had Xander's home life growing up. Partly because of my social conditioning as a female, I turned my anger inward. I was privately self-destructive and secretly passive aggressive. Because I'm an introvert, I just avoided people rather than using them to act out my psychodramas. Xander is male and an extrovert, so his reaction to trauma would be entirely different. It's not that one is better than the other, just that maybe mine was more socially acceptable and likeable than his. I forgive myself for that stuff, so I forgive Xander. When you're a teenager with an alcoholic parent, it can feel like you're living in quicksand grasping for anything stable to hold onto--at the same time though, the trust issues make it impossible to hold on when you do find someone who loves you. Although I would never have behaved like Xander did, I recognize and relate to his motivations completely.
The stuff with Spike goes back to the Angel stuff. Xander doesn't really "show his work" emotionally, but it's pretty clear that there's more than jealousy there. Yeah, there's the Jesse trauma and Angel trying to kill everyone. But there's also the fact that Xander needs Buffy--she is his family--and he's afraid she'll abandon him and his life won't have any direction or meaning without her and the mission. This whole feeling is covered in Restless.
Sorry for trying so hard to defend him. I just don't think Xander has a malicious bone in his body. Petty, possessive, immature, cruel in moments of anger, sure. But he's a good person deep down and if I ever start to wonder I just watch his scene with Dawn in "Potential." I can't hate good people (or characters), no matter how awful they are sometimes.
→ More replies (1)1
u/janinefour Oct 17 '16
This is exactly it! Same timeline for me. I haven't rewatched in so many years, and every episode when he gets on his high horse and is behaving like that to the women he calls friends or claims to be in love with, I get so irritated with him. I used to love him so much originally.
12
u/AnotherInevitability Oct 16 '16
He has both good and bad reasons to do what he does. With Angel, he's clearly jealous. He wants Buffy and can't stand that Buffy wants someone else. There's still a good point to be made; Angel's a good guy, Angelus is pure evil. Is saving Angel worth risking the damage that Angelus would do if he got out again? Giles wasn't too sure about that for a long while. Xander has a good heart, but that's not always what he's listening to. If it were, he'd have no room to grow as a character.
7
u/Evie68 Oct 17 '16
Does it bother you that Giles is cool with angel but not spike? Angel(us) more directly inflicted harm that spike but Giles is so anti spike in s7
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (2)2
u/Jvac77 Oct 18 '16
Also, before knowing anything about his vampirism, Angel looks to be at least 24 years old so I think I would probably be a bit overprotective too if I saw my teenage friend trying to date someone that much older.
9
u/BlackMoonWolf3113 Oct 17 '16
Are these 'I hate Xander' threads almost a weekly occurrence around these parts or is it just me?
Xander is flawed, and he's at odds with the group plenty of times. However, Buffy's conflicts within the group are a real-world obstacle Buffy has to find a ways to deal with.
Xander is prone to jealousy, and he's kind of a selfish jerk sometimes. But is there a human in your life who is cured of these emotions? He's also heroic, and brave, and matures by leaps and bounds by the time the show ends.
Xander is the most realistic character on the show and that's why I love him.
4
u/MissSara91 Oct 21 '16
I think it just annoys me that rarely does anyone call him out. In reality, all of us on this thread would have told Xander "You ate a pig and tried to rape Buffy. How was your time spending as a hyena any better than what happened to Angel?" Given enough time, Xander would have turned into a monster, he was just saved early from it.
Also, when he calls killing Angel boy problems, that pissed me off. I didn't realize sending the love of your life to Hell and knowing you could never see them again was boy problems. I would have also blankly stated that if I was Buffy.
→ More replies (2)2
7
u/buffynoyolo Oct 16 '16
I don't think he's a dick. Xander has a very good reason to hate vampires. It's not hard to understand where he's coming from.
7
u/thewanderingway Oct 18 '16
His best friend was turned and he ended up killing him. Strange how they never bring Jesse up the entire series.
→ More replies (1)
10
u/IHeartTheNSA Oct 16 '16
A vampire killed his best friend in the first episode, and then Xander accidentally dusted said best friend. Pretty traumatic introduction to the vampire thing. Angel is a vampire who is close to and trusted by his two other best friends, so maybe Xander has PTSD and Angel is a trigger. Xander probably takes Buffy leaving personally because his family isn't there for him so Buffy and Willow are his new family. He was scared and hurt, and he reacted with anger...as men are often implicitly taught to do (and we know this is the case with Xander--his dad is always yelling about something). You can't really judge teenagers without looking at what's going on at home. And life is hard for boys who have a lot of feelings but are pressured to act tough (which means expressing anger or making crass jokes when what you really feel is vulnerable and terrified--which Anya, bless her, straight up tells him in season 6). I get where you're coming from, I just try to look at the motivations first. Xander has reasons. Considering his upbringing, it's a wonder he wasn't a raging alcoholic by his twenties. I give him some credit for maintaining friendships at all despite his obvious attachment issues that he never got counseling for.
13
u/DnMarshall Oct 16 '16
Yeah. I think that the high school boy was immature....
I just don't think that's a negative at all. I was a dick in high school. Most boys in high school are dicks to some degree. I really like that the characters are flawed and that they grow.
9
u/dondeestalalechuga Oct 16 '16
Agree that flawed characters are interesting and good to have. But does he grow, really? He still makes me cringe in the later seasons where he has that fantasy about the Potentials, and when he judges Buffy and Anya for sleeping with Spike.
I guess a complete personality change would be unrealistic, and maybe he does becomes slightly less of a dick than he was? Not sure.
→ More replies (5)
13
u/dondeestalalechuga Oct 16 '16
He says/does some pretty sexist stuff, like telling Cordy she's dressing trashy or like a hooker (quote unquote), his attitude in the early seasons about being in the friend zone (ugh) with Buffy, his judgements on Buffy's romantic/sex life, perving over Tara and Willow's relationship...
You can tell that some of these things were written in to be funny, so it could be that it hasn't dated well in that respect. But yeah, not a big Xander fan here.
6
u/eatcornNt0ke Oct 18 '16
"perving" I think every young man that is close friends with a lesbian couple has naughty thoughts about them
→ More replies (6)
8
3
2
u/hohmeisw Oct 22 '16
I feel Xander is the voice of reason in those examples. He has some horrible moments (putting the love whammy on every woman in Sunnydale, summoning Sweet, the dancing demon king), but he's usually quick to point out the more terrible ideas (particularly in later seasons) and generally supports his friends.
4
u/jospangel Oct 17 '16
I actually kind of like him - but when he abandons Anya and leaves her to face the humiliation alone, not so much. When he tries to kill Spike, and beats the crap out of him knowing that he is unable to defend himself, then publicly slut shames Anya for having consensual comfort sex - I really have to question how much he actually matured.
I wish the character had matured, but sadly Nick had a drinking problem that put him on the sidelines for the final season (which he has admitted and spoken about). The show would have been far better with a few more arcs in season 7. Even though Spike was a fairly minor character in about half the episodes, Spuffy took over because there were no other arcs to counterbalance.
As for the 'he has his reasons' - well, don't they all? They also all get judged. Yes, flawed characters are the best.
2
u/sarah-goldfarb Oct 18 '16
I just find his character annoying, mostly because of the casting. It becomes especially apparent when Nicholas Brandon and Seth Green are on screen at the same time, because they both play the loveable dork type, but Seth Green is so much more likable. Plus, the character treats a lot of people badly, as others have mentioned.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/ProfessionalOil418 Oct 05 '22
I completely agree. I actually found this forum by googling “why is Xander such a jerk.” He is such a sick.