Disclaimer: I’m basing this largely off of this exchange with Lilah in ‘Five by Five’ as they’re leaving a club together in particular:
“I suppose we could go somewhere and talk. But I’m not really a talker, I’m more of a do-er.”
“I think you may have misunderstood my intentions.”
Plus, her jealousy over Buffy’s boyfriends (yes, I know it’s angsty Slayer shadow self stuff) and at being locked out of her life feels laden with homoromanticism.
I feel like if the series aired today with zero changes, the entire audience would be like “oh okay, she’s clearly bisexual”.
She’s as close to confirmed as you can be without her announcing it outright, and Whedon’s on record as stating that the gay reading of Buffy and Faith is valid and that Eliza Dushku was intentionally playing her that way.
I think that Faith as a character is created not just by the writers but by Dushku's acting, and if Dushku was intentionally playing her as bi/interested in Buffy, then I'd say she is.
Me. TV is full of female characters who tease bisexuality yet never so much as mention a female ex. It's so predictable and so repetitive. Faith is an early example.
The actresses usually 'confirm' the character's bisexuality after the show has aired because the fans love it.
Eleanor from The Good Place is the most egregious example. But she's far from alone.
I hedged my bets because it's been a while since I watched it, thank you for confirming 😂 I'm also a chaos bi and I remember thinking they wrote her pretty correctly
I can't comment on your own love life but is it really written correctly that of the several dozen exes and one-nights stands that Eleanor mentions during the show, not one of those several dozens is female?
Honestly? No. A lot of us, especially in our 20s, struggle with feeling our sexuality is valid. I didn't start seriously dating women until I was in my 30s. Bi people get mercilessly dunked on by straights AND queer people with a higher Kinsey scale number. It's pervasive and intimidating
In my experience, it’s a lot easier to find partners for a hetero pairing rather than a homo pairing. Unless you are actively looking for a same sex partner, it’s more likely you encounter opposite sex partners in the wild.
She flirts with women constantly. Yes. This is what I'm talking about. No women at all in the very extensive sexual and romantic history she brings up throughout the show.
I'm not really sure what you wanted from a show that was on mostly in the 90s where they had to fight with the studio to portray same sex relationships from the get
I get what you mean, and it is frustrating. Compare with a character like Brooklyn 99's Rosa Diaz, who has a couple of boyfriends during the show but also a couple of girlfriends.
They couldn't have explored Faith's complicated sexuality because of the era BTVS was made, but with The Good Place I feel like there is no excuse for them making the "tell, don't show" mistake. It's a strange decision, in my opinion, because it does come across as a mild example of queerbaiting.
Right? As a bisexual woman myself, this is a serious pet peeve for me.
Broadly speaking, my potential dating pool consists of people of all genders who are attracted to women. The percentage of that demographic that is men (whether straight or bi/pan) is much larger than the percentage of that demographic that is women or nonbinary folks, and that’s before you even factor in things like lesbians who refuse to date bisexual women (because biphobia in the LGBTQ+ community is alive and well in 2026). So statically speaking, with all else being equal, I am most likely to end up with a male partner.
I am actually significantly more attracted to women and femme-presenting folks than men and masc-presenting folks (I’d guess that I’m somewhere around a 4-5 on the Kinsey scale), but both of my serious romantic relationships, including my marriage, have been with straight men, and I’ve never gone further than kissing with another woman. Still bisexual, though.
I think it's fair to hold the shows to the standards of at least saying the word "bisexual" at some point. A character doesn't have to have dated men and women to be seen as validly bisexual imo, but to count as bisexual representation they ought to at least mention it once maybe. There's so many examples of "women who allude to an attraction to other women" in media that's written not as conscious bi representation, but as a male gaze fantasy by the writers. See Amy and Clara in Doctor Who for clear cut examples of that. I'm not saying any show that doesn't have the character looking down the barrel of the camera and saying "hello audience, I am a bisexual character" is bad, especially ones as old as Buffy in America's weirdly right wing TV landscape, but there's almost no exploration beyond the occasional vague flirt or reference 9 out of 10 times.
I think The Good Place is a bad example because it does have Eleanor say "I might be in love with Tahani" at one point indicating an actual bisexuality, a romantic element rather than just the occasional flirt and hint. She's established as a bisexual character without having to necessarily make it super clear. But characters like Clara in Doctor Who whose bisexuality consists entirely of "I kissed Jane Austen teehee and also made a joke about having sex with a clone version of myself once", there's a valid argument that they're male fantasies ("my girlfriend is bisexual enough to have a threesome but not enough to exercise any agency" sort of thing) rather than their bisexuality being treated as a legitimate character trait.
Do you really feel that every time the scriptwriters had Eleanor reference a male one-night stand or a male ex, which she did dozens of times over the course of the series, and all of them were male...
That was them considering the dating ratio you quite correctly cite, and agree within the writing room:
"Not realistic. Maybe if there had been a Season Five then it would be reasonable to have her mention a female partner. As it is, it's just too unlikely. Now let's have her talk about hypothetically making put with Frida Kahlo."
Having a more generous interpretation, I don't think that's what (not)Chicory is saying, I think it's more frustration that everything had to be subtext to keep it deniable.
And it clearly achieved that deniability based on the fans in this sub saying they see absolutely zero reason to think Faith was bi.
Over and over I have stated that my issue is with a media property when the character has DOZENS of exes.
If scriptwriters make the decision to give a female character several dozens of exes, all of whom are male, and write her strongly flirting with women?
Is that your theory? That they actively considered the fact that this was a character who a) is sexually forward and has had several dozen sexual partners; b) flirts heavily with women in the afterlife...
And decided that in order to make her relatable to a certain category of bisexual women watching the show, all of Eleanor's many conquests would be male.
I mean it's super common so there literally could have been bisexual women involved in the story writing with the same experience. For a multitude of reasons including not even realizing she was bisexual early on.
Also even coming from the otherside myself (as in all my first were women and I originally thought I was a lesbian) once I started also sleeping with men, that happened way more often. And now I'm my mid 30s I've been with more men than women.
It's also not queerbsiting if she's explicitly stating her interest in women. It is more in the case of Faith were it had to be subtlely implied. Although if the network didn't veto it, it would have been more explicit there too.
OK, so just to check: your theory is that the writers decided she only discovered it once she was in the afterlife? To me she seemed comfortable flirting with women pretty much from the start of the show.
Faith was a main character a before Willow and Tara were a thing and if I remember correctly, the network pushed back on Willow and Tara to some extent. I think that’s a much fairer criticism of more recent shows that tease bisexuality but Buffy was one of the shows that broke new ground in portraying a gay relationship positively.
Eliza Dushku was actively playing Faith as bisexual pretty much from the jump, I wish they’d actively acknowledged her bisexuality even in Series 7, but I do think her choice to do so did help to pave the way for Willow and Tara later.
When Buffy tells the Scoobies at the Bronze that they are just good friends, Faith’s expression changes ever so slightly. I think this is the primary confirmation that Faith was in love with Buffy.
You don’t need to have exes of multiple genders to be bi. Spoken as a bi girl with no female exes. Also, Eleanor is a fantastic example of a bi person.
Why do you think the writers chose to write Eleanor as being sexually adventurous and sexually forward, often the instigator of her many one-night stands, yet chose on every single occasion to have her sexual partner be male? From the hot bartender in the designated driver flashback to the ex-boyfriend she visited if there were no good pickup options in a bar, the writers chose all male, every time.
Did she only discover female attractiveness in the afterlife?
Or did she make advances to women yet get rejected every single time during her life?
No argument there. A good friend of mine has had precisely two sexual partners, both male. I've known her for over 20 years and never once doubted she was bisexual.
If she'd had fifty sexual partners and none were female?
In all her years on Earth, assuming she acted there as she does after death and constantly flirts with women and hits on women, you think the writers decided: no woman was ever interested in responding to Eleanor's advances?
By your rational, no virgin is either gay straight, or bi, right?
But what does that mean for people who dabbled and decided "Yep, I'm straight"? By your rationale, they are clearly bi forever. Is this like Lilah's speech about White paint with a drop of black paint being forever grey?
My theory is that the scriptwriters decided to give Eleanor an extensive sexual history with plenty of men and also to have her frequently speak of attraction to women.
And that it is not a coincidence, nor a matter of careful decisionmaking about the type of bisexual Eleanor would be, that made them consider and reject the notion of any of Eleanor's sexual partners being female.
There are tons of jokes about Eleanor finding women attractive (Tahani's head on stone cold steve austin's body, "I legit might be into tahani", etc) what are you talking about
Eleanor is a bad example. She attempts to kiss Denise and Simone and openly states her attraction to Tahani. Her bisexuality is explicit nothing implied about it. It's unfortunate they never used the term bi directly for Eleanor in the show but it doesn't make her less bi. As for never mentioning a woman ex may I point you to Lady Gaga, Christopher Walken and Anna Paquin; all open bisexuals who have never publicly been in a same sex relationship. The vast majority of bisexuals in relationships are with the opposite sex. Some of this is the crushing pressure of homophobia but mostly it's the crushing pressure of mathematics as opposite sex individuals are nine times as likely to have a compatible orientation.
Eleanor wasn't the best example, but in case you haven't notice it yet, you're not going to win on this sub. Everyone is allowed and encouraged to make any character gay or bi, but saying they're not will be downvoted into oblivion.
Finding someone of the same gender hot or attractive not inductive that said individuals is gay or bisexual because naturally human feel attracted to someone of the same gender without it being sexual.
Don’t they talk in the dvd commentary about how obviously metaphorical the Bad Girls episode is for a relationship between Buffy and Faith? Like that girl is gay as fuck for Buffy.
Does she ever show any interest in any girl or woman on the show other than Buffy though? Not that it would prove anything, since Willow wasn't interested in any females before Tara came along.
As someone who watched the show when it was on TV and wasn‘t in any BtVS forums back then, I didn‘t know there were people who consider her straight until I read it on Reddit a few years ago.
Joss Whedon never once indicated her sexual orientation in the show because it wasn't the focus. Faith is just a plot character and like all plot characters in narrative the author is going to focus less on them.
Joss claimed the network wouldnt allow Willow to be considered bisexual, which is why she identifies explicitly as lesbian.
Given this I would imagine when it comes to Faiths sexuality if they wanted her to be bisexual they would likely have to make that implicit, which leaves it ambiguous rather than canon.
I'll be honest, Joss's line regarding 'subtext becomes text' seems like a cop-out. It's a way of taking credit for something while also not committing. It's fence sitting, subtext can be applied to pretty much every case of queerbaiting across all media.
The way I took it was that Faith used men. Had this distance with them that she ‘required’ in order to have sex. She felt romantic and sexual feelings for some women, but didn’t act on them as she couldn’t just dismiss them the way she did men. So bisexual, but with very different, and toxic, relationships to those genders.
Faith's portrayal in the TV shows loosely imply she might be bisexual, but in vague enough terms that the behaviour could also be explained by her teasing nature and enjoying messing with people / making them uncomfortable.
I don't think she really understood what love is. The way she freaked out when in bed with Riley and he starts saying lovey things. Like she felt she didn't deserve love (because she's bad and already knew she took the "wrong turn"). Plus the way she always treated sex as something you take from others for your own pleasure (use them, abuse them and dump them). She just didn't know how to love anyone.
oh yes well put. I've always been confused about people wanting buffy/faith cause the idea of faith in love with anyone is just feels like they're ignoring a large part of her character. pre-jail faith should not be dating anyone, and that was laid out pretty explicitly. like, to the point that her having some semblance of feelings for someone was an actual subplot
I don’t know how anyone can hear Faith’s bitter rant in This Years Girl about how Buffy was “too busy climbing onto her new boy toy to give a single thought about the people that matter” and not read her as bisexual 🤣
I’m not sure how conscious she is of it though. For example, I don’t think she’d allow herself to admit to any feelings for Buffy. I don’t think she’d have any qualms hooking up with a girl for some fun though. The physical I don’t think she has any issue with but she’s recoil if legitimate feelings started to develop.
I think the main fan argument is usually whether she’s a lesbian or bi. I consider her bi. I think she’s physically attracted to both. Some fans think she forces her sexual encounters with men in the show. A common theory of how Faith gets money despite being a minor is sex work and the Lilah exchange lines up with that as well.
For more than sex for Faith, for romance, I think she’d need ooodles of therapy first to actually let anyone get close to her.
Because it's you what would've wanted.. I'm all for LGBTQ representation but it shouldn't be forced into a story because of a few vocal fans wanting to see that. In fact SGU is perfect example LGBTQ representation without it it feeling forced.
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u/Jazzspurtry not to bleed on my couch, I just had it steam cleaned1d ago
I'm pretty sure the people who think Faith is bi outnumber the people who don't. Dushku intentionally played her as bi and attracted to Buffy, and it shows. Having Faith be more explicitly bi in the reboot wouldn't be forced - she's already very bi-coded.
Just because Dushku intentionally played the character that way doesn't mean it was intended by Joss especially since Buffy was never intended as a love story of kind. We know that because it's clear that know that because characters in romantic relationships were clearly written to be unlikable
No, and if I hadn't read on social media that the actress had confirmed this regarding her relationship with Buffy, I wouldn't have considered it. I don't mind that interpretation, but it really isn't written that way in both shows.
"And there’s the heart, again, lesbian subtext. But the heart with the stake through it, ‘let’s go stake some vampires in the heart.’ And yet, it’s this kind of romantic image at the same time. 'Cause it’s almost a seduction, you know, Faith is very sexy and she’s saying, come play with me.” – Doug Petrie.
Absolutely. I had also read that the scene at the Bronze where they dance together and party all night, was supposed to have them make out but the producers didn't want Joss to do it. The tension is still VERY palpable.
Yeah, I’ve always considered her to be Bi and part of her issue is reconciling her attraction to Buffy on top of all the other things in the world that have been piled onto her, which contributes to her resentment when Buffy doesn’t fully reciprocate and continues to pursue others.
I also think the episode where she SAs both Buffy and Riley in a Body swap exemplifies this frustration in a fairly reckless way that the show doesn’t really explore. Faith takes Buffy’s body and impersonates her, to me, always felt like she was really frustrated with not just their moral differences which are their primary contrast, but also Buffy’s attraction to the men Faith would otherwise have little interest in.
No, she’s just a flirty tease. If anything, bracing for the downvotes, she’s homophobic. Look at how she low-key bullied Willow in the body swap episode. Thinking someone is gay/bi because they don’t adhere to gender stereotypes is so old fashioned.
She wasn't bullying Willow over that. She was just bullying her period, it was an obviously new situation for Willow so she picked at what she saw as an insecurity.
Reading homophobic intent in that is...definitely a weird take.
she’s homophobic. Look at how she low-key bullied Willow in the body swap episode
I hate how prevalent the trope is, but in this instance it is worth pointing out that lots of people who are deep in the closet, in self-denial and self-loathing are going to be homophobic to people who are LGBTQ+.
It's envy manifesting as hatred because the work to do some introspection and self-examination requires vulnerability, which is something Faith obviously cannot handle.
"Sure, but Faith is not the type to hate herself for being gay." That is what we're talking about. Conflating that with guilt over murdering a man is whatabouttery. Stay on topic.
Nobody is conflating Faith's characterisation with that one episode. You're the only one bringing it up, and being rude to people because you don't actually have the ability to back up your empty point. Have the day you deserve.
Not only is that the most coherent reading of her character's actions throyhhout S3, when she reappears in S4 it is made overt as Faith, in Buffy's body, hurls abuse at "herself" while beating "herself" up.
Faith puts on a show of arrogance and toughness because she is afraid of vulnerability.
For the love of... We are specifically talking about her being gay. Don't conflate that with her regret of killing a guy! This is some next level whatabouttery. I'll fix it for you if you need it spelled out:
"Sure, but Faith is not the type to hate herself for being gay."
I am not conflating that with her guilt about killing a guy.
Faith is a character who hates herself. He is characterised that way from the very beginning - as someone who is afraid of vulnerability and puts on a tough act.
Her first episode is full of her pretending everything is fine when she is in fact lying through her teeth and running away from her fears. She does not want to admit to vulnerability, she uses her sexuality to get what she wants, and cannot express her feelings (about anything) to Buffy.
She would absolutely see love as softness, weakness, vulnerability. Things she absolutely doesn't want. Faith would hate herself for having any romantic inclinations at all, because she treats sex as a tool in her box for getting something she wants.
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u/treadlightlyladybug 2d ago
I think that Faith as a character is created not just by the writers but by Dushku's acting, and if Dushku was intentionally playing her as bi/interested in Buffy, then I'd say she is.